14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

[13yearslater]

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

Hmmm. I still can't ride a bike and I'm almost 40. I didn't learn to tell the time until I was 14 and I still sometimes struggle with shoelaces.

The other stuff just sounds like typical teen behaviour, except for the stealing.

For goodness sake woman. You both loved each other once and somewhere down the line you lost it and any respect for each other and yourselves. Call a decent safe helpline like the Samaritans 116 123 and get the guidance you deserve before it gets worse. There's an incredible future worth fighting for here.

Op it sounds like you have your hands full.

It’s very unsettling when people talk about adhd and asd, and things being wrong with your child, but neuro diversity isn’t about being wrong, but being different.

You know how we always moaned about how babies don’t come with a manual? Well, getting a diagnosis is a bit like getting a manual for your brain. Trying to operate an asd mind or an adhd mind in a neurotypical operating system leads to malfunctions.

The shoes/time/bicycle problems strongly suggest that there’s an issue. Schools don’t always pick up on learning difficulties so don’t dismiss it as a possibility for that reason.

ODD stands for oppositional defiance disorder, and can present alongside adhd, and it’s something that needs intervention as early as possible.

You can contact the school or a GP with your concerns but be prepared to push hard to be taken seriously. This SYMPTOM CHECKER is a good starting point because it will give you some talking points and phrases that you can use if you are discussing him with gp/school.

That's like my son he's just turned 14 and I have had years of trying to show him how to tie his shoe laces. Then a couple of weeks ago I saw him do his trainers so he has got there now. He can't do his school tie and getting him to wash is a nightmare.
He only likes wearing certain clothes and eats certain foods.
He's been like this from being younger I have always known there is something no right really. But last year when they went back to school after lock down in march he started coming home with rubbish in his bag. He told me people where putting stuff in I rung the school because I was thinking he might being bullied then he admitted it was him and he couldn't stop. He couldn't walk down the street without having to pick rubbish up and he was coming home with his bag full of stuff. I stopped him taking his bag then his blazer was full. I started taking pictures and took them into school and was told the teachers on at break time had noticed what he was doing. I got a referral over to camhs but still not had an appointment. The litter picking has stopped but I still notice rubbish in strange places in the house its rubbish from this house. So not as bad as finding fags ends being my toilet he's not a smoker.
He's in the top sets for everything at school so no problems with learning but there is definitely something not right about his behaviour. Like weird habits
Think it definitely needs an assessment and not just being lazy or bad parenting because they can't do shoe laces.
Good luck

Sal

My son is 16, very intelligent but can't tell the time and can't tie shoe laces. Being obsessed with one thing such as gaming is also very common with Autism.

My brother also had autism. Sensory issues meant he refused to clean his teeth. Ever. He also didn't understand the need to clean his teeth, or take care of his appearance. Totally oblivious to what he looked like or what was acceptable.

Btw, my other autistic son is Bi and trans. Apparently gender and sexuality issues are quite common with ASD, especially as teens.

Clever children can have aspbergers and adhd you know, it sounds like your son had dysparaxia and or ADHD aspbergers, my son cannot tie his laces he's 14 and has fine motor skill problems he has ASD but does not have a learning disability.

Well my dd 14 lies about brushing her teeth and does everything yo avoid washing. She has shit personal hygiene.
I think that's normal.
My brother used to steel from my mum frequently as a teenager and would threaten wanting to leave a million times!
To me, normal teenage behaviour.
Not telling the time/ doing shoelaces are the concern. He should be able to.
Maybe he does have an issue there.
Teenage years are hideous.

I think the wanting to leave is deliberate to push your buttons. Very typical for teenage years

My son has Dyspraxia he is applying to uni to be a Civil Engineer. Shoelaces are just one a myriad of everyday challenges he faces. Collecting of strange items particularly stones was a thing when young

Sounds like he is lashing out at you to cope with his frustrations.

@anotherbrewplease

It depends what the diagnosis is - medication can be prescribed for example in ADHD. We've had input from CAMHS, speech therapy, physiotherapy classes, occupational therapy, aids and adaptations and schools make adjustments such as an EHCP.

This sounds so similar to my 14 year old. We had a phone consultation with the Dr last week. Waiting ro hear back as ro his thoughts (he was going to speak to a colleague) buy not hipeful of it going anywhere. My son would love in his own sweaty mess, same clothes, not brushing his teeth I'd you let him and often lies that he has washed, brushed teeth. To the point that I now smell his hair and stand beside him to me sure his teeth are brushed. . He had no care at all about his personal appearance. He has no proper friends, he eats the same food non stop then suddenly stops and says he doesn't like it. So same cereal day for months, then won't touch it.

I know all this sounds like he's just lazy but its more that that. He hates HATES authority and being told what to do. Us, football and swimming coach, teachers (especially teachers). He seems not to care a jot what other people think but n the other hand doesnt like leaving the house incase people from school see him.

Obsessed with games as well.

We've wondered about oppositional defiance disorder and possibly innatentive adhd. We are at our wits end too. And I appreciate it sounds like he is lazy but it feels like there is something more. It's been going on for over 10 years.

So take his games away u till he washes and brushes his teeth. As for the shoe laces and the time, my ds (who is nearly 14) really struggled and still does to do those things. He's dyslexic. He oy got a diagnosis about a hear and a half ago and I had to really push for it. Luckily he finally got a teacher who took me seriously.

His personal hygiene is excellent because he has routines. He is a bit scruffy because he likes it like that. Would never steal though

Another one saying he sounds like my ASD son. Doing very well at school and has no other physical things that he can't do but he just can't successfully manage shoe laces at 15.
Hes very into gaming which can cause a blow up at times too.

Haven’t rtft.

Op i too have taught my dd lots of things she just refuses to do. She displays opinions and behaviours that I’ve actively tried to tackle- with limited success at times. This is NOT your fault.

My daughter is near to a diagnosis of autism with pda.

I think you may need to focus on one 'issue'. Forget SEN, for the moment, but to me, the one thing that really needs to be addressed is the stealing.

My youngest stole from me at about that age. He seemed to have very little empathy and tried to excuse his action on the basis of a variety of absurd reasons. I made it black and white: stealing is a criminal act, if my son commits a criminal act, I have to call the police. His older brother had been arrested a year before, so my youngest son knew this could happen.

Once the boundary is put in place about stealing, it could be useful to work with your son on another area. For example, he may need a softer toothbrush, he may prefer an electronic brush and so on.

However, it is important to work with him and to support him, if he wishes to develop (or indeed can develop) these skills.

My eldest son, does have a diagnosis of ASD (and several co-occurring conditions). My youngest has no formal diagnosis, but over the years (he is 20 now), he has become much more able to communicate his needs. Keeping an open rapport is really helpful.

Definitely sounds ASD (ASD also more likely to be bisexual amongst all the clear executive function problems and gaming) - please get him assessed ASAP

YABU to think this is something social services would get involved in!

Re PDA, the PDA Society UK have an approach which goes under the acronym PANDA. This is helpful for my youngest (undiagnosed) son.

I would print out a list of symptoms for dyspraxia and show it to him when you are both feeling relatively happy and calm. Ask him what he thinks, whether they ring true, whether he would like an assessment. His symptoms scream dyspraxia to me.

You both desperately need help and support, there's been some suggestions on this thread of where to find it
Stepping back a bit it reads as if you have both backed each other into a corner.
You are the adult and need to find a manageable way out of this and break this impasse and start treating him differently He can't as he's only 14.
some items on the long list of his many faults are just unimportant. Tying shoe laces - buy shoes with velcrow or buckles or get elastic shoe laces that are easy to pull on and off. There's all sorts of answers to that. The bike issue. So what.. it sounds as if you are more upset about it because you struggled to pay for the bike and now its not used. This happens sometimes with kids and you have to let it go. Its not the real problem.
And it really does sound as if he's upset you so much that he really can't do anything right and so he's permanently in the wrong and is acting out because of it. You have to change the way you talk to him. We had a phase of this when my DC said "Why do you only ever talk to me about homework and how I'm not doing it." They wanted to sometimes talk about something else that wasn't nagging to do things. Its very difficult when
What are the positive things you could say about him. You said he was good at school. What could you talk to him about that isn't about the things you think he fails at or are about asking him to do things.
I think you need to look at things from a different perspective.
The gaming, is quite normal. Its how they socialise and they talk about it at school and he wants to be in the loop. unfortunately its expensive to buy games, but they do get a lot of use out of them. Its his birthday money so he's chosen to spend it on what he wants. Its one of his main interests so don't just dismiss it as worthless. It keeps him busy. Ask him to show you how to do one of the games.
What does lazy mean? Tidy your room is meaningless. If its a horror tip, you need to pitch in and help them organise it, without nagging and ask what he thinks would improve the room, different storage for eg.. so that the room looks great and then he has to keep it that way. You have to break it down into smaller pieces, like please make you bed and thank them when they've done it. You may not feel like thanking but if he's taken even a small step in the right direction, you have to make him feel it was worth it. This is one way out of the deadlock, and you will be setting him the example that things can improve if he is reasonable.
The stealing. What is he using it for. Is it to top up day to day expenses? Its time to talk to him (without nagging) about budgeting, go through what he thinks he needs and get him to prioritise. And say that if he needs things he has to ask not steal (I'm sure you've already done this but trying it from a practical angle might work more)
It won't happen overnight and you have to be consistent, but he's growing up and needs a different approach. Its a difficult time for everyone and particularly you, so get as much support as you can.
As you are both at loggerheads, he doesn't trust you and he's pushing the boundaries. You need to get him talking rather than telling him what to do. Ask him what the options are or to suggest the solutions, he will start to see things more positively. Best of luck.

@WibbleyWobble

This sounds so similar to my 14 year old. We had a phone consultation with the Dr last week. Waiting ro hear back as ro his thoughts (he was going to speak to a colleague) buy not hipeful of it going anywhere. My son would love in his own sweaty mess, same clothes, not brushing his teeth I'd you let him and often lies that he has washed, brushed teeth. To the point that I now smell his hair and stand beside him to me sure his teeth are brushed. . He had no care at all about his personal appearance. He has no proper friends, he eats the same food non stop then suddenly stops and says he doesn't like it. So same cereal day for months, then won't touch it.

I know all this sounds like he's just lazy but its more that that. He hates HATES authority and being told what to do. Us, football and swimming coach, teachers (especially teachers). He seems not to care a jot what other people think but n the other hand doesnt like leaving the house incase people from school see him.

Obsessed with games as well.

We've wondered about oppositional defiance disorder and possibly innatentive adhd. We are at our wits end too. And I appreciate it sounds like he is lazy but it feels like there is something more. It's been going on for over 10 years.

Have you looked into pda?

He's bixexual.

Tell him he can be any sort of sexual he likes, if he won't start cleaning his teeth it's irrelevant because he's not going to be getting a shag from anyone of any sex.

Children with the disorders mentioned here can do well academically and struggle with the tasks you describe. My son has difficulty with laces and time telling due to dyslexia but got a First in his university degree, for example.