14 yrd old son can't tie shoelaces

[13yearslater]

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

I'm with you too, OP.
I dread getting up on a morning as everyday bis a battle with DS 12.
He won't brush his teeth but will pretend he has, he won't get a wash- only put on a squirt of deodorant.
School days are a nightmare as he just can't sort his school bag and won't on a night despite my offering of help and so mornings are horrible as he spends an hour shouting and angry as he's looking for PE socks etc and I'm nagging about his teeth.
I'm so fed up lately that I've started doing absolutely everything for him and then he's still not happy as he says he's old enough to do it himself.
He's only recently started trying to tie his laces and I still have to redo them as he'd trip otherwise.
He can't ride a bike - gets angry and frustrated with anything he can't do immediately so gives up.
Absolutely everything that isn't going his way is my fault and he's verbally and physically aggressive. Lately his favourite thing to say is that I'm abusive despite he being the abusive one.
He can't be in the room with certain foods as they make him feel ill (smell), can't wear certain clothes because of the feel of them and he gets angry if he perceives his trousers are 'baggy' or his sleeves an inch longer than he would prefer or have a crease in (his clothes are completely fine and it's normal to have a crease when you bend your arm).
He's a gamer too and becomes obsessed with his game and extremely angry if we tell him he's on it too much.
He can tell the time and has been able to from a young age. He is also great at maths and is obsessed with money. His writing and literary skills are poor.
When he was little I didn't notice anything was 'wrong'. I'm not sure it was. It's been these last 3-4years and I'm now worried I'll be seen as an awful Mum if I say anything about it all to a professional, although rationally I know this is nonsense but this can't go on much longer.
Is the GP the first port of call?

@EmergencyHydrangea

Has he been tested for dyspraxia?

My first thought too

@MummyJasmin

Is this a joke thread OP?

I feel very sorry for him.

Try having a bit of empathy, will you? She is asking for help and you are telling her she doesn't deserve it.

Any or all of autism, ADHD, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorder could be relevant here.

I agree. The refusl to clean his teeth could be a sensory thing or a Pathological Defiance Disorder thing which often goes hand in hand with any of the above.

bisexual - I've seen it suggested that the autistic community has a far higher proportion of LGBTQ people than the general population

I agree. Although I would say that often with young people on the spectrum they latch onto an alternative gender identity (often trans or non-binary) rather than simply being someone who is straightforwardly gay.

@13yearslater

He knows his rights: He knows that if he called social services they would get involved.

He knows that he deserves not to have his mobile or xbox removed from him (he considers this abusive)

He has no idea what any of it would involve.

I think he should learn.

I would let him get social services involved then. I can't imagine they would take him into care simply because his mother wanted him to brush his teeth! Does he really think a foster carer wouldn't want him to be clean?

He hasn't always been a moody teenager. Most children start learning things like telling the time or doing shoe laces long before they get to the grumpy teenager stage. This suggests that the problem isn't really his moodiness.

If he does have SEN, by this age he's probably realised he's "different". It might be less embarrassing to pretend he can't be bothered, than to try things that his peers can do and not manage.

Between mine they have, dyspraxia/dyslexia and ASD., can't tie laces or tell time on normal clock, says clothes are scratchy, can't write legibly with a pen/pencil but can use computer to do work, the list is endless. Oh and can't stand some toothpastes as they make them feel sick.
Please get your son checked for learning disabilities, your issues are oddly familiar to me.

@WibbleyWobble

This sounds so similar to my 14 year old. We had a phone consultation with the Dr last week. Waiting ro hear back as ro his thoughts (he was going to speak to a colleague) buy not hipeful of it going anywhere. My son would love in his own sweaty mess, same clothes, not brushing his teeth I'd you let him and often lies that he has washed, brushed teeth. To the point that I now smell his hair and stand beside him to me sure his teeth are brushed. . He had no care at all about his personal appearance. He has no proper friends, he eats the same food non stop then suddenly stops and says he doesn't like it. So same cereal day for months, then won't touch it.

I know all this sounds like he's just lazy but its more that that. He hates HATES authority and being told what to do. Us, football and swimming coach, teachers (especially teachers). He seems not to care a jot what other people think but n the other hand doesnt like leaving the house incase people from school see him.

Obsessed with games as well.

We've wondered about oppositional defiance disorder and possibly innatentive adhd. We are at our wits end too. And I appreciate it sounds like he is lazy but it feels like there is something more. It's been going on for over 10 years.

Thanks for posting. This is him. It makes me despair.

I can’t tie my shoelaces or ride a bike but don’t have dyspraxia.

The stealing would be the one that really concerns me, but is quite common in gaming-obsessed teens in my experience.

everything you have said sounds like neuro diversity to me; you should try and get him assessed if you can. puberty seems to be when a lot of these issues get worse. try not to blame him. the stealing is a sign of impulsivity- my DS with adhd did a lot around this age. he does not any more.

OP, It sounds like you are tired and a bit down of parenting a challenging child alone..

Let him speak to school, maybe you both get the help you need. I am not sure social service will do much as he is not being abused or neglected; but maybe that will get you both the help you need.

It does sound like he has some special needs even if he does well at school.

He has Adhd and ODD, sometimes so think PDA. the one thing I know is that meeting it head on does not work! is there any neurodiversity in your family?

sorry - i meant to say my DS has Adhd and odd and possibly pda

@13yearslater

...Or tell the time on a normal clock.

He can barely ride a bike (bought him a lovely squishy bike three years but he's not interested)

He won't brush his teeth or shower without a fight.

He got 2 hundred quid in birthday money a month ago and has blown the lot on gaming games.

He steals from me.

Tying shoelaces - v.common, because velcro means they don't get the practice at the age when they can still be bothered. Reading an analogue clock - v.common, because digital is the norm nowadays. Most schools now provide digital clocks for exams, because it's a problem. Riding a bike - mine too. She used to ride one, so I'm not too concerned - it'll come back when she finds a need. Brushing teeth/showering - I think teens divide into two camps on this - again, certainly not unusual.

Spending money - well, with his own money, is it so very wrong to spend it on his interests?

Stealing from you seems like the only big issue.

I can't see social services being interested.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff

What a very helpful post - good advice all the way through. Thank you

I went to bed so am only now catching up with replies. Thank you everyone for your input.
I haven't considered anything like autism, adhd, dyspraxia or ODD. I have however considered LSBD over and over again but there isn't much help out there for it.
We go through these cycles - the last time it got to the stage where we had a formal meeting with a friend who is a foster parent and he said he wanted to live with her. It was very upsetting. My son was very matter of fact and said he didn't want to live with me anymore and if she couldn't have him could she call social services to find him a family to live with. She was brilliant - factual, calm, called him out on his behaviours...'you steal from your mother?' 'you don't wash?'

Things were ok for a couple of weeks...then it slides back to the same place. He lacks empathy - or rather, fakes empathy. We have a beautiful dog but he isn't interested in the dog at all because 'it likes you more than me.' He does zero for the dog.
Is that autism too?

Another voice here saying dyspraxia or similar. Dyspraxia isn't just motor skills, it can include sensory issues or executive functioning skills too.

Undiagnosed SN can lead to depression / other MH issues, as the child/teen feels useless / told they don't try when all the time they are trying 10x harder than those around them.

OP - please try to ignore the 'teen' behaviour and get help for the SN issues. Even if it is just a diagnosis that may help. If you can get acceptance of the SN then some of the more 'teen' stuff may well go too.

Please get some professional advice. Speak to the SENCo at his school. Just because he is doing well academically, doesn't mean he can't have any difficulties such as dyspraxia, dyslexia, ASD etc. It sounds extremely difficult for you and you must be at your wits end to be thinking of inviting social services into your lives. School might be able to point you in the direction of some help. For example in Manchester it's called 'early help'- really useful support for families BEFORE it gets to social services stage. If he has been dealing with difficulties long term, he may have used computer games as a coping mechanism. You both sound like you need help- please speak to someone IRL.

Autism, dyspraxia and dyslexia overlap quite a bit.
My DD with diagnosed dyspraxia (who doesn't seem to meet the key autism criteria) finds empathy / recognising other points of view, hard.

My dd has dyslexia and couldn't tie laces till she was 10, can't read a normal clock. Went through phases of not wanting to live with me or her sister. Went through tantrum's for days, then would be fine for a few weeks. She still has them now and then and she is now 22.

My son has some of these traits and he is asd.aged 14
I have just paid to have him assessed by an OT.
He has sensory needs and poor coordination and communication
He doesn’t steal but cash burns a hole in his pocket and he wastes it on in game purchases.he is obsessed with gaming
It does need further investigation

He doesn’t have to have a learning difficulty to have some other disability - they’re 2 different things, but can go along side each other. IMO he definitely needs assessing. It’s not social services you need though - speak to a GP or school. What is LSBD?

OP - it sounds as if you need to go and see your GP and ask about a referral to CAMHS for a diagnosis re ASD or Dyspraxia (or both). There may well be ADHD there too - this is where it gets complicated as lots of children are simply ‘neurodiverse’ and don’t fit neatly into one category. The not showering/not cleaning teeth and not being able to tie laces are not ‘laziness’ at 14. Something is ‘different’ with your son. You both need to understand this so you can have a relationship that isn’t exhausting.

It must be really hard as a single parent - is his father involved at all? Do you have support from family at all? Do you feel safe around him?

The only advice I can give beyond getting an appointment asap is really strict boundaries - he needs to understand what the rules are and the consequences. Your son is turning into a man and you need to stay consistent. Let him contact social services. I can guarantee you they will not remove him for his mum taking his x-box off him.

Are there any male relatives or friends that he gets on with who can support you on this? I wonder if changing the dynamic from Mum (understandably) getting frustrated with her lazy teenage son to ‘heart to heart’ with a man who’s been there could be useful?

Finally, you sound utterly exhausted. What are you doing for yourself? Do you work - and if so, do you enjoy it? Do you have friends or hobbies? How are you coping with this and who is supporting you?

Lack of empathy is an autistic trait
They don’t have a filter so if they think something they say it even though it may be unpleasant.
Pls get a referral for a paediatrician so he can be assessed

Hi OP and others. My DS is 10 and was diagnosed with autism aged 8. He is academically brilliant, can socialise, can fake just about everything to show people what they need to see. He also can’t do shoelaces, can’t ride a bike, I have to wash him and do all his personal care. He also has PDA which these things are a symptom of. He has huge issues with food. Go to your GP and share your concerns and don’t be fobbed off. Your kids need help not discipline. Gaming is where my son feels safe, happy and ‘normal’.