To think the UK and France should not be sued for manslaughter over migrants drowning?

[OneRuleForThem]

A humanitarian group are suing the two countries saying they left migrants to drown. AIBU to think this isn’t right? I don’t think either “left” anybody to drown and they need to realise that getting on an inflatable boat packed to the rafters and attempting to cross the Channel isn’t a good idea.

Agree, it was a choice they made or their parents and caregivers made for them. It is a choice to come to the UK. I understand some very valid reasons why some refugees may prefer to settle here than else where. I really don't blame them for seeing here as somewhere which will give them hope for a good future. I really do empathise with them. But, no one forced them to come here via the channel rather than settle else where or try other means. They assessed the situation and thought the rewards were worth the risk.

I think it is absolutely right that action be taken. If it is correct that distress calls were made and ignored then regardless the reasons they were in the waters if they could have been saved they should have been.

As a nation we shouldn't leave people to die. That's absolutely horrific.

I think they should sue the people trafficking groups (including any NGOs) who organise the journeys. It's a very lucrative (albeit immoral) business for some.

It depends.
If nobody knew they were there then obviously not.
But if they were alerted that there were people in trouble in the ocean and they did nothing then yes they should be held accountable.

I haven't read the story myself. I do agree that if we know they are in distress we should do all we can to help and action should be taken if we have deliberately sat back whilst people died. I do believe though like the other poster that the responsibility lies with the people traffickers and the lack of a proper plan by the whole world on how to deal with all of this.

As a nation we shouldn't leave people to die. That's absolutely horrific.

Agreed. But very sadly we do. On a regular basis. Perhaps a humanitarian group should sue the UK government over the 100s of homeless left to die on our streets every year (both migrant and British born).

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/homeless-man-found-dead-near-25750376

Probably more helpful (than sueing) whether over the trafficked migrant crossings or the homeless left to die on the street, would be constructive practical action.

@Heartoverheadheadoverheart

Agree, it was a choice they made or their parents and caregivers made for them. It is a choice to come to the UK. I understand some very valid reasons why some refugees may prefer to settle here than else where. I really don't blame them for seeing here as somewhere which will give them hope for a good future. I really do empathise with them. But, no one forced them to come here via the channel rather than settle else where or try other means. They assessed the situation and thought the rewards were worth the risk.

I agree with this. If anyone should be sued, it should be the traffickers. Not either country.

But DID we ignore a distress call? The lifeboat people are committed to responding despite everyone saying they shouldn't they have been doing it regardless

Unfortunately money makes people pay attention, not lives lost.

I agree with you - I find it hard to believe the RNLI would ignore a distress call.

No.
Efforts should go into finding the scum who traffic these people and make money out of their misery.

Honestly I think it’s bonkers. There’s clearly dispute over who’s waters they where in.

Frankly they decided to get into dangerous freezing waters paying smugglers most of them planning on calling for rescue as part of the plan. If anyone’s to blame it’s the smugglers go after them. Next is the french police who often watch the boats being launched and just do nothing. They know they are not going for a family beach dingy ride but knowingly let them attempt the dangerous trip.

The traffickers should be relentlessly pursued and caught. They are responsible.

I do think that given that an overwhelming % of migrants who arrive in this way have their case approved, for asylum, family reunification etc , that there should be a sensible agreement between the UK and France (and Belgium, with coast just up the road from Calais) about assessing and processing people, relieving their desperation.

But in the end the criminal activity is those who take money for such dangerous attempts, and responsibility rests with those who choose to take what is now known to be incredibly dangerous. Given that they are in France, a safe country.

I do think in the past migrants may not have been fully aware of the danger. They may never have Serb the sea. No idea of the cold, the height of swell in the middle of the channel, the implications of a boat which does not have a rigid bottom, which does not have separate inflatable chambers.

But by now, the dangers are known.

The people who drowned made the decision to risk their children's lives. They were safe in France.

They called both the English and French lifeguard for help. Those calls were ignored. That is gross negligence.

IF distress calls were ignored, then that is a different matter.

The UK border force have spoken about the difficulties of pulling boats to safety if the occupants do not wish to be helped, as it makes it a very dangerous, possibly catastrophic manoeuvre.

The RNLI have said they will always help.

The RNLI will always go to anyone in need.
Their FB page got a lot of abuse not long a go for rescuing migrants and their response was that it makes no difference who is in trouble they will go.
They are alerted by the coastguard.

100% YANBU. It's the risk they take when they get on these inflatable dinghies.

Whilst it's tragic that these people died, I think it's pretty disgusting and shameful that the UK and France are being blamed for them drowning. I mean WTAF? How the hell can anyone even begin to THINK it's our fault? They came of their own accord! No WAY is it the fault of the UK or France, and it's batshit to suggest otherwise!

You can try to blame the traffickers or the police or themselves.
But ultimately if lifeboats opted or were ordered not to save lives at sea then that is criminal and grotesque.

A bit of personal responsibility has to be taken. They decided to get in the dinghies when they were safe in France.

Agree

Have you got a link please @OneRuleForThem?

@montysma1

You can try to blame the traffickers or the police or themselves. But ultimately if lifeboats opted or were ordered not to save lives at sea then that is criminal and grotesque.

From a legal standpoint how is it criminal? I'm sure someone with more knowledge of maritime law will come along shortly but don't the lifeboats have jurisdiction only in their waters?

Also these people had the money to pay smugglers. They knew which number to call - both numbers in fact. The rescue boats were clearly part of the plan. They knew how dangerous it was.

Suing both countries on the logic that it's their 'right' to be rescued will not only encourage more people to cross but emphasizes that it's somehow the government's responsibility to get people across. Rescue services are for when things don't go to plan. They're not a free taxi service for deliberate use.

They decided to risk crossing the worlds busiest shipping lane, in bad weather, in an unfit boat. France is a safe and friendly country, as nice as the UK, not some hell hole. If I was fearing oppression and violence I would be happy to settle in Franch (or Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. which they will have passed through on the way), I certainly would not risk my children's lives crossing the Channel in a leaky inflatable boat.

@AyeOop

Have you got a link please *@OneRuleForThem*?

metro.co.uk/2021/12/21/channel-tragedy-uk-and-france-sued-for-manslaughter-after-27-migrants-drown-15801971/

Even more disgusting they are watched getting onto these on the beach!
Clearly there are very simple ways, they could be stopped from leaving but France doesn't want them either.