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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the UK and France should not be sued for manslaughter over migrants drowning?

215 replies

OneRuleForThem · 21/12/2021 17:52

A humanitarian group are suing the two countries saying they left migrants to drown. AIBU to think this isn’t right? I don’t think either “left” anybody to drown and they need to realise that getting on an inflatable boat packed to the rafters and attempting to cross the Channel isn’t a good idea.

OP posts:
LittleRoundRobin · 21/12/2021 19:02

@MatildaIThink

They decided to risk crossing the worlds busiest shipping lane, in bad weather, in an unfit boat. France is a safe and friendly country, as nice as the UK, not some hell hole. If I was fearing oppression and violence I would be happy to settle in Franch (or Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. which they will have passed through on the way), I certainly would not risk my children's lives crossing the Channel in a leaky inflatable boat.
This. ^ They always want to come to the UK though. Often citing the reason that they have 'family' here. Wink
RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 21/12/2021 19:06

@IncompleteSenten

It depends. If nobody knew they were there then obviously not. But if they were alerted that there were people in trouble in the ocean and they did nothing then yes they should be held accountable.
This
RoastedParsnips · 21/12/2021 19:09

traffickers are responsible and France for continuing to allow people to do this, they could stop it but choose not too because of political madness.

Fomofo · 21/12/2021 19:09

I believe both france and uk ignored distress call, which is reprehensible

Fomofo · 21/12/2021 19:11

Littleroundrobin, and you think their journey is easy once they get here?

IamnotSethRogan · 21/12/2021 19:13

If distress calls were ignored and people were left to die, then the absolute dickheads deserve everything they get.

Tempusfudgeit · 21/12/2021 19:15

Wasn't it in French waters and therefore we're not allowed to enter unless invited?

WhenISnappedAndFarted · 21/12/2021 19:17

If they were in our waters and we left people to die then yes. If they were in French waters and left to die then yes sue France.

However the bigger problem is the traffickers and we need to get together with other countries and actually do something about them.

IamnotSethRogan · 21/12/2021 19:20

MatildaIThink

They decided to risk crossing the worlds busiest shipping lane, in bad weather, in an unfit boat. France is a safe and friendly country, as nice as the UK, not some hell hole. If I was fearing oppression and violence I would be happy to settle in Franch (or Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. which they will have passed through on the way), I certainly would not risk my children's lives crossing the Channel in a leaky inflatable boat.

Sorry have you see the state of the jungle ? You think that's a nice safe place ?

AyeOop · 21/12/2021 19:20

@TractorAndHeadphones thank you
As far as I know we have coast guards, immigration boats, helicopters and volunteers manning our coast
They would never ignore a distress call, I think it's part of maritime law
To try and sue is quite frankly incredulous IMHO

Exhausteddog · 21/12/2021 19:22

Whilst risking your own and/or your children's life in an unsuitable vessel is extremely risky behaviour, we can't just assume they should settle in France/Germany etc because they travelled through there first. As an Island we are probably never going to be the first safe country they arrive in but that doesn't mean we should effectively close borders and say not our problem. Its a global problem and the UK, along with other European countries needs to take in refugees, but hopefully in a more controlled and properly administrated way than people getting onto dangerously unsuitable boats to (attempt to) get here

IamnotSethRogan · 21/12/2021 19:25

All these twats who were just lucky enough to be born here think they deserve our safety and comfort more than everyone else

ChaToilLeam · 21/12/2021 19:26

If distress calls were ignored, yes, they should be sued.

RuggerHug · 21/12/2021 19:28

You want to add context to that wink littleroundrobin or was it just a twitch?

Mumoblue · 21/12/2021 19:30

They should be sued if they ignored distress calls.

Also the casual way people talk about other humans drowning because they’re “migrants” who “knew what they were doing” is gross.

MatildaIThink · 21/12/2021 19:30

@IamnotSethRogan
Sorry have you see the state of the jungle ? You think that's a nice safe place ?
They are in "The Jungle", because they refuse to register in France, if they registered in France and claimed asylum they would be housed, fed, kept safe, their children educated etc.

They are making a choice to live illegally in France, to refuse the help and protection of the French state. France homes and feeds tens of thousands of asylum seekers every year, the ones trying to cross the Channel refuse to engage with that system.

Bagamoyo1 · 21/12/2021 19:34

@RuggerHug

You want to add context to that wink littleroundrobin or was it just a twitch?
Do you genuinely not understand? Because I can probably explain if you like.
Fanmango · 21/12/2021 19:35

Surely they should be putting pressure on finding the people that are making huge profits off of trafficking people. No, I don't think they should sue.

Woeismethischristmas · 21/12/2021 19:36

If I decided to take a dinghy to France and drowned en route. It’d be my fault. I think those who got on the boat were responsible for their own safety. Obviously the smugglers supplying the boats were also responsible for encouraging people to get on a non- seaworthy craft.

RuggerHug · 21/12/2021 19:36

Well Bagamoyo1 it seems like utter cuntery but I thought I'd give them a chance to explain themselves just in case I misinterpreted it.

Teaandcakeordeath83 · 21/12/2021 19:43

The easiest way to shut down the traffickers is to have centres set up in France/ the countries of origin or through the diplomatic embassies where these poor people can apply for asylum safely and without having to resort to risking their lives. By having absolutely no strategy to deal with these people anywhere other than UK soil we are inviting these disasters to carry on unfolding and empowering the traffickers. Remember how many of these cases actually get refugee status when they are processed here, these aren't fraudulent applications- we aren't giving them safe options to take.

Politicians have no appetite for actually doing anything remotely sensible though and would much rather vilify these people. Too bloody consumed with their precious tough on immigration narrative and demonising everyone else as "other".

If our emergency services deliberately ignored the distress call when/if it was in our waters or France did the same then they are just as accountable as the traffickers. It is reprehensible.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/12/2021 19:43

This thread is really shocking.

It is completely and utterly reprehensible to let people drown if you know they are drowning because you don't like their politics and don't want them to come her.

Yes the traffickers are ultimately responsible BUT any government which wilfully allows people to die should be held accountable.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/12/2021 19:44

come here

Justkeeppedaling · 21/12/2021 19:47

Surely the traffickers should be sued for manslaughter. It was they who caused the deaths of these, and many other people

rrhuth · 21/12/2021 19:48

How many of you have bothered to get to know any refugees and listened to what they have been through and what they want for their lives? Until you have done that, until you have sat in a room with someone who has made that choice and you have listened to them firsthand, I don't think you are qualified to discuss this topic.

I hate these threads. Those who think we shouldn't help are a disgrace and the views expressed sometimes make me wish karma really was a thing.