To think the UK and France should not be sued for manslaughter over migrants drowning?

[OneRuleForThem]

A humanitarian group are suing the two countries saying they left migrants to drown. AIBU to think this isn’t right? I don’t think either “left” anybody to drown and they need to realise that getting on an inflatable boat packed to the rafters and attempting to cross the Channel isn’t a good idea.

It’s all this ‘desperation’ that I don’t understand. I’m sorry. If France was war torn and they were literally fleeing gunfire on the beaches then yep.

But it’s not! There is no need for anyone to be living in ‘the jungle’. They are in a safe country, they can apply to that country for asylum and be housed and fed and warm. Once that process is complete they can then move to Britain if they so desire, using regular (and safe) modes of transport.

It’s just all so unnecessary.

And I also don’t see why English being their second language as reason enough to need Britain to be their home, when half the world speaks English, either as a first of second language.

This new Border and immigration law they keep touting, when is it supposed to come into force? Has it been ratified yet?
Im seeing people living on the streets in my home town, no one has offered to put them up in a hotel. Where are we putting the 28,000 channel crossers, as well as the various thousands of Afghan people who have been invited here and rightly so.
A lot of the channel migrants appear to be young fit men, you could almost call it an army.
These are some of the comments doing the rounds in the county most affected by the influx - Not mine.
I fear some sort of serious backlash soon .

Re manslaughter charges for people smugglers, a prosecution has been thrown out in the UK on smugglers bringing in 69 albanians

not manslaughter charges but smuggling charges

@Tealightsandd

As a nation we shouldn't leave people to die. That's absolutely horrific.

Agreed. But very sadly we do. On a regular basis. Perhaps a humanitarian group should sue the UK government over the 100s of homeless left to die on our streets every year (both migrant and British born).

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/homeless-man-found-dead-near-25750376

Probably more helpful (than sueing) whether over the trafficked migrant crossings or the homeless left to die on the street, would be constructive practical action.

Yes much distress and anguish over the people dying in the Channel. Nothing about the homeless. I imagine most of you walked past several homeless people while doing your Christmas shopping. Some of them will die over Christmas.

People die all the time doing that journey. Why does it matter now to everyone? They've been doing this for decades, countless people lost. No one cared then. Suing the countries involved will achieve nothing at all.

And I also don’t see why English being their second language as reason enough to need Britain to be their home, when half the world speaks English, either as a first of second language
You don't because you don't want them in the UK. It's yet a very good reason to pick this country.

And yes, you do need to speak French to get a job there in almost all industries.

The same most expats pick France or Spain because they are looking for more sun and higher temperatures.

No I don't think it's the responsibility of either government, and even if the French were 100% effective at stopping them taking to their boats, they'd move up the coast to Belgium to do it instead.

Some of them were from Iran and had been in Germany. In what world would you want to risk your life to leave Germany and come here? By all means apply for a work permit to come here if you have the skills, but risk your life when you're in a safe and arguably better country to start with?

It does not compute for me.

@vivainsomnia

And I also don’t see why English being their second language as reason enough to need Britain to be their home, when half the world speaks English, either as a first of second language You don't because you don't want them in the UK. It's yet a very good reason to pick this country.

And yes, you do need to speak French to get a job there in almost all industries.

The same most expats pick France or Spain because they are looking for more sun and higher temperatures.

Expats also pick those countries because they can get by very well with English!

@JuergenSchwarzwald

No I don't think it's the responsibility of either government, and even if the French were 100% effective at stopping them taking to their boats, they'd move up the coast to Belgium to do it instead.

Some of them were from Iran and had been in Germany. In what world would you want to risk your life to leave Germany and come here? By all means apply for a work permit to come here if you have the skills, but risk your life when you're in a safe and arguably better country to start with?

It does not compute for me.

So your saying that because they took a choice you don't agree with (for whatever reason).

Their lives don't matter?

@FreedomFaith it is possible to care about the deaths of migrants and the homeless issue in this country. It's not one or the other.

I organised a charity event for refugees about five years ago and the abuse I got on our social media promo for the event was all very much along this line. I got a PM from one woman on FB berating me for not caring about the homeless in our town. I offered to help her set up a similar event to support homeless charities in our town - offered my help and the services of others who were doing the original event, we were all absolutely up for it. She could have all the 'glory' and we'd essentially do all the work.

Got even more abuse for 'virtue signalling'. Turned out she didn't actually care about the homeless in this country, she just - like everyone else - wanted to batter us over the head with the issue. Not get off her arse and do something about it. We went ahead and did the event for the homeless charities anyway.

It's really easy to care about different groups of people and not want any of them to suffer and find ways to help. Or you can just wang on about how other people need help to try and prove a point and make yourself look stupid.

[quote changingstages]@FreedomFaith it is possible to care about the deaths of migrants and the homeless issue in this country. It's not one or the other.

I organised a charity event for refugees about five years ago and the abuse I got on our social media promo for the event was all very much along this line. I got a PM from one woman on FB berating me for not caring about the homeless in our town. I offered to help her set up a similar event to support homeless charities in our town - offered my help and the services of others who were doing the original event, we were all absolutely up for it. She could have all the 'glory' and we'd essentially do all the work.

Got even more abuse for 'virtue signalling'. Turned out she didn't actually care about the homeless in this country, she just - like everyone else - wanted to batter us over the head with the issue. Not get off her arse and do something about it. We went ahead and did the event for the homeless charities anyway.

It's really easy to care about different groups of people and not want any of them to suffer and find ways to help. Or you can just wang on about how other people need help to try and prove a point and make yourself look stupid.[/quote]
You could have read what I said.

My point is exactly what that woman does. Bleats on about it, but does nothing. Of everyone on this thread that is saying how shit this is, how many have actually done anything? The majority haven't. The majority walk past people in need of help every day and do nothing to help. If the majority actually did something rather than just talk about it, maybe we wouldn't have these issues.

Talking about it does nothing. Suing these countries does nothing. This is this week's topic, give it a week and people on here talking about this will have forgotten and latched onto the next topic. It's the same as the #bekind campaign. Forgotten about. Or used to try and make themselves feel good.

The matter of discussion here is not the politics of migrants, it's about whether the rescue organisations failed in their duties.

This is not dissimilar to the constant rescues in the Alps of people who dare skiing in dangerous areas and are taken out by avalanches. If this was your child, a but naive, following a group, trapped under the snow but alive, manage to call the emergency services, and they were told that they were busy and has enough of irresponsible people they have to rescue every week so won't be coming and let your child die, are you saying you wouldn't want an investigation to understand why no rescue was attempted for many hours and which led to their death?

@vivainsomnia

The matter of discussion here is not the politics of migrants, it's about whether the rescue organisations failed in their duties.

This is not dissimilar to the constant rescues in the Alps of people who dare skiing in dangerous areas and are taken out by avalanches. If this was your child, a but naive, following a group, trapped under the snow but alive, manage to call the emergency services, and they were told that they were busy and has enough of irresponsible people they have to rescue every week so won't be coming and let your child die, are you saying you wouldn't want an investigation to understand why no rescue was attempted for many hours and which led to their death?

👏 👏

I dont think it is the case that they were told no one would be coming !
Either they didnt get the message or they were too busy rescuing the hundreds of other people. We only have a very limited number of vessels able to respond you know