To not comply...?

[Largethighsbadeyes]

...if the government imposes restrictions over Christmas, given what we now know happened last Christmas with parties at downing street.

The possibility of this is rumour at the moment and hadn't been confirmed but I'm interested to see how others are feeling.

By restrictions I mean rule of 6 indoors for Christmas day or even no mixing of households for Christmas eve, Christmas day, boxing day.

I will not comply. I cannot do that to my child who is an only child and whose grandad is dying. He wants to be with extended (but very close) family at Christmas, as do I.

If we all test negative the day before we will be carrying on as normal regardless of the rules (all adults triple vaccinated)

YABU - I will follow the restrictions if brought in over Christmas

YANBU - i will not follow restrictions if brought in over Christmas

But why are we constantly told that the vast majority of Covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated? Are you saying this isn't true? Because it is fact

It was fact at the start of the vaccination programme and the literature on it comes from that period. It’s not fact anymore. Most people in ICU are vaccinated because the vast majority of the population has been vaccinated. There are some people who are not vaccinated out of choice and we have to allow them to make that choice. There are also some that can’t be vaccinated for health reasons. But it’s a myth that restrictions are due to anti-vaxxers. And the more pressure is put on anti-vaxxers, the less likely they are to get the vaccine.

What a truly pathetic stance OP!

Take your righteous indignation and playground games, and remember, when you've either caught Covid or watched a loved one suffer with it, that at least you 'stuck it to the man'!! Ridiculous!

I feel I should add that the week in which my ex had some sort of mental breakdown, was the only time I didn't comply, during that lockdown, and only with the approval of the police who were very unstandanding, and were an enormous help during that time.

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

Facts on current hospital admissions. Rate of hospitalisation is higher in non-vaccinated people (35% of admissions versus 19% of population being unvaccinated) but more vaccinated than unvaccinated people are admitted to hospital with Covid. To blame it on them is ridiculous and distorts reality. Even if you held everyone of them down and forced a needle into their arm, you wouldn’t get rid of Covid or the possibility of restrictions.

SoItWas

I was referring to base language on a public forum directed at a stranger, that is no way to speak.

When did I mention I was wrongly reporting anyone; I will only report those breaking rules if there are any. Why assume any reports will be false?

Sorry if this was from earlier in this thread, and not another thread

@Tiptoearound

SoItWas

I was referring to base language on a public forum directed at a stranger, that is no way to speak.

When did I mention I was wrongly reporting anyone; I will only report those breaking rules if there are any. Why assume any reports will be false?

Because you wouldn’t have the full facts if you stand behind your curtains watching the comings and goings of your neighbours and you wouldn’t have a clue what backstory there was even if they were technically in breach of an arbitrary rule that hugely favours those who live with their spouse/parter and children while utterly pissing on those whose living arrangements differ to that. It’s a pathetic waste of scarce public resources to call the police because your neighbour spent time with a friend over Christmas. That people like you can still think they have the moral high ground is both astounding and disgusting.

@Ontherebound34

But why are we constantly told that the vast majority of Covid patients in ICU are unvaccinated? Are you saying this isn't true? Because it is fact

It was fact at the start of the vaccination programme and the literature on it comes from that period. It’s not fact anymore. Most people in ICU are vaccinated because the vast majority of the population has been vaccinated. There are some people who are not vaccinated out of choice and we have to allow them to make that choice. There are also some that can’t be vaccinated for health reasons. But it’s a myth that restrictions are due to anti-vaxxers. And the more pressure is put on anti-vaxxers, the less likely they are to get the vaccine.

I didn't say hospitalisations I said in ICU.

The mayor of London posted as recently as yesterday that majority in ICU are unvaccinated.

No way. Not this time.

Anyway perhaps there are more vaccinated now in hospital with Covid bc they are there for other reasons. &/or because there are many more of them (like the chart shown up thread).

I'd be interested to see the breakdown between "hospitalised for Covid" and "tested positive while in hospital"

Ontherebound34

You have no idea about my circumstances, I cannot even see my neighbours from my windows as I don’t live on an estate or in an urban area. If I see anyone that I feel are putting other people at risk & there are restrictions in place then I’ll report it, simple as that.

"I have to say that if restrictions/rules are put in place either before or after xmas (or at any time) and any of my neighbours break the rule then I will absolutely be reporting it"

With no clue as to why they feel compelled to break the rule? If they ban mixing of households again, and one of your neighbours dies, are you going to report the family and friends of their grieving spouse, children etc, for coming to comfort them? What if a woman has a miscarriage and needs her mum and sister, or someone has noticed every time they phone their brother, he sounds really drunk, even first thing in the morning, so they feel an intervention is necessary? Or will you just report anyone, without a second thought, because that's what a good upright citizen does?

The number of ICU patients is minuscule compared to total infections and hospitalisations. With any vaccination programme you will never secure 100% compliance and trust me you don’t want to live in a society that demands this. We have an excellent take up of the vaccine. It is convenient and tempting to blame a group of people for what you see as ruining everyone’s fun but it’s not accurate here. There are also other factors affecting the severity of the virus that can be seen to be in someone’s control such as obesity so the intense focus on vaccination status is not logical. A 25 yr old unvaccinated person who is in good health has a far lower probability of hospital admission than an overweight diabetic in their 50s.

@Ontherebound34

fullfact.org/health/economist-vaccination-status/

Facts on current hospital admissions. Rate of hospitalisation is higher in non-vaccinated people (35% of admissions versus 19% of population being unvaccinated) but more vaccinated than unvaccinated people are admitted to hospital with Covid. To blame it on them is ridiculous and distorts reality. Even if you held everyone of them down and forced a needle into their arm, you wouldn’t get rid of Covid or the possibility of restrictions.

It's easy to distort facts tho isn't it as you have just proved, taking a single fact and isolating it to try prove your point 🥱.

How about looking at the whole picture and it looks alot different, now add the following facts to your equation, the length of time on average it takes for un--vacinated parents to recover Vs vaccinated (time taking up beds), the percentage of these continuing to develop long COVID and the severity of their illness and also their risk to transmit the disease. Factor all these into your equation with facts and come back and say blaming them is rediculus. 🤔

Just look at the state of everyone, arguing about whether it's ok to see family at Christmas, surely the anger should be directed at those who refuse to be vaccinated, they are the problem. My mum and dad will be coming for Christmas regardless. All adults present around the table will be triple vaccinated so very low risk. I will not be told that we are irresponsible or selfish

I have been unbelievably sick this year after not having mixed with people last winter. I’ve had a month from hell with one virus or bug after the other. I have never been this sick in my life - including when I had COVID. I am not doing this bullshit again - I’m trying to keep covid out I have let everything else in. Everyone needs to get vaccinated and just be sensible. The critical cases in hospital of people with COVID (snd there because of it) sre unvaccinated. Sorry, that’s their own issue 🤷🏻‍♀️ People just love this as an excuse to police others, judge and finger wag.

SoItWas

Seriously what are the chances of that compared to people just breaking any rules because they don’t think they should have to be following them. Last lockdown my neighbour further up my lane had 9 cars parked on their drive & it was clear from music, laughing & shouting that they were having a party..that is irresponsible & selfish, they were reported (not by me on that occasion I hasten to add but only because someone pipped me to the post) subsequently the police arrived & dispersed the revellers & neighbour got a fine

Even with 100% vaccine uptake, if Omicron spreads as far and fast as feared, the NHS could still struggle to cope, on sheer numbers alone. How effective is the most effective vaccine? I was shocked to discover 40 in 100 PCR test results are false negatives.

Agreed arguing amongst ourselves isn't good. I'm not angry at anti-vaxxers though, I'm angry at the government. The pandemic has been badly managed, imo.

It's easy to distort facts tho isn't it as you have just proved, taking a single fact and isolating it to try prove your point 🥱.

How about looking at the whole picture and it looks alot different, now add the following facts to your equation, the length of time on average it takes for un--vacinated parents to recover Vs vaccinated (time taking up beds), the percentage of these continuing to develop long COVID and the severity of their illness and also their risk to transmit the disease. Factor all these into your equation with facts and come back and say blaming them is rediculus. 🤔

Nope, still not the case that the problem lies with the relatively small number of unvaccinated people (not all of whom are anti vaccination I haste to add). As I said we have a very good uptake of vaccinations in this country yet we still have a huge problem with the number of cases and we would do even if we forced people to get vaccinated. There are many factors that affect the risk of hospitalisation. Vaccination status is one of them but by far not the only one and the vast majority of unvaccinated people are at extremely low risk of hospitalisation if they get Covid. I get that you want someone to blame for all this but it’s misguided. Boris and co are happy for you to blame the unvaccinated because it takes the heat off them.

And if you remember at the start of the vaccine programme, these wonder-scientists that we all trust implicitly said that only 70% of the population needed to be vaccinated to keep the virus under control. It seems that wasn’t the case at all.

Tiptoearound

Shit like that happens everyday. People die, have miscarriages, have mental health issues, etc. Many suffered alone in various ways, during the lockdowns. My point is, you shouldn't tar all non compliers with the same brush.

SoItWas

Of course but I’m unlikely to notice the odd visitor I’m referring to people who flagrantly break rules (many have commented here) the attitude that ‘I don’t care about any rules I’m still having 20 people over at Christmas’ these are the people that I would report if I know it’s happening, the people with several vehicles on the driveway types. Anyway no rules have been announced as yet so I don’t need to concern myself with it until such a time that it does change.

I'm not influenced on this subject by the awful behaviour of the government staff/MPs
I'm influenced by knowing people who have been working in the nhs and care homes. DH has had to do shifts in Covid wards, cover the difficulties brought by Covid in his own specialty and also has volunteered as part of the vaccination programme. My mother is in a care home that have been so amazing through such a difficult time and have kept their vulnerable residents safe.
We will continue to do our bit as part of society to try not to make any of those people's lives more difficult by overwhelming the system. It's not fun and I wouldn't do it for any other reason but Covid doesn't stop being an issue because we are fed up, bored, frustrated or annoyed.
What I will also be doing is my utmost to make sure the shower of shit that is our current government is not voted back in again.

I can’t believe an adult has written the OP . They did it Miss, so I’m doing it too, regardless of the impact on people’s lives! Absolute fuckwittery at its best!!!

@Tiptoearound

SoItWas

Of course but I’m unlikely to notice the odd visitor I’m referring to people who flagrantly break rules (many have commented here) the attitude that ‘I don’t care about any rules I’m still having 20 people over at Christmas’ these are the people that I would report if I know it’s happening, the people with several vehicles on the driveway types. Anyway no rules have been announced as yet so I don’t need to concern myself with it until such a time that it does change.

You are so sad. Please get a life. Something to do. Like hiding under a rock. You will be safe there.

I don't blame you for not complying, I wouldn't if I had elderly parents desperate to see us etc.
However the people at downing Street took risks for themselves?
Why put your own health at risk?