DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

@massiveblob

Those saying the child is at risk whilst getting changed in a cubicle. This is what happens at school swim lessons when male teachers and staff are present also. I don't know how you eliminate it. At age 8/9/10 my DD would not have expected me to lurk right outside her cubicle. (I'd be getting changed in my own one). By 9 most pools allow them to swim alone if competent. What age would you deem safe? Or never?

It's a tough one. I would be surprised if male swim teachers at schools are allowed in a shared sex change area. If they are I wouldn't be super comfortable with that, but it strikes me as lower risk, as it would be just one man, rather than multiple allowed in that space, and there would be numerous girls there, all of who know each other and know the swim coach, so there would be more of a sense of being watched.

As for what age is ok in communal swimming change spaces....this is obviously a sliding scale. I do feel age 8-10 is possibly the most delicate age, as girls and boys are independent enough to dress on their own, so may be left alone from a practical point of view.... yet they are often prepubescent/ just beginning to develop, but not fully absorbed senses of privacy/ appropriateness/ developed a radar for who is around them/ have the wisdom to suspect/ critically consider adults' approaches to them (Eg questioning whether to open a cubicle door if an adult asks)....

Younger, it is obvious they need supervision. And older - say 11+ they are a bit more mature to understand risks, to be able to talk through and retain basic guidance around protecting their privacy and personal space, more natural questioning of adults, more cemented friendships to look out for each other and know if something inappropriate is happening.

These things are all multiple sliding scales of risks, and also knowing your own child. There is also a sliding scale of how much you monitor. I'm not saying at 9, you need to be literally standing guard at the cubicle door- but changing in next cubicle, or making sure you know where she is, staying in the shared area and calling to check all ok/ being within sight line etc feels appropriate... another year older, if she is with a girl friend whose maturity I trust, after a couple of instructions to stay close to each other, I might sit outside the room and pop in once to check all ok. Another year or two, I'd probably be fine with the cafe option.

You do know if it's single sex changing rooms by 8 all the boy children need to be waved off by their mothers with never a worry for their own safety? But you are suggesting helping a girl until she's 11?

How very sad!!
It's highly unacceptable to place boundaries and have people respect them otherwise your child will have mental health issue! Such bollocks!

Imagine ignoring a father's (possible) instinct- he doesn't feel comfortable- yet he is unreasonable! The world we live in today is toxic. People who choose to say no are the crazy ones causing mental issues- ok!
Hang on while I freely hand my kids over to you even tho my husband has concerns but who cares what he thinks cause your so such a nice person! It's nice that you devalue your partners feelings!

@Mousemay

Haven't you read what I said we do teach her how to react and give her confidence that she can always speak to us no matter what the situation. You respond as if we don't allow male interaction and hide her away

You said you speak to her about what to do. That is different to giving her the opportunity to practise those skills.

@Drunkpanda

You do know if it's single sex changing rooms by 8 all the boy children need to be waved off by their mothers with never a worry for their own safety? But you are suggesting helping a girl until she's 11?

I've asked about 3 times now why this seems to be the case. So far no one has explained it.

@Drunkpanda

You do know if it's single sex changing rooms by 8 all the boy children need to be waved off by their mothers with never a worry for their own safety? But you are suggesting helping a girl until she's 11?

In the real world lots of fathers take their daughters out and about and send them off to the ladies without thinking twice too.

We actually started doing it when I was with them in preparation for this occurring so that I could go after them if the need occurred. The only thing that has happened was another women helping younger DD turn a tap on.

My teenage niece managed to lock herself in a shower once though...

I guess children being sent alone to communal single sex changing rooms is a reason why the norm now is mixed single cubicle village type ones.
They are deemed safer.
A parent on own, going swimming and changing themselves with children too big to all cram into one cubicle, has to take their eye off kids at some point.
(Only ever 1/2 family ones for those with really little kids)
My DH always took the DC swimming and all just went in a cubicle each post age 6/7 or so.
But according to some posters, really the only truely safe way is to stand by child's cubicle watching.
But then when do you get changed? Make them wait first?
I think reality is that everyone just changes.

I wouldn't have an issue with it but I know my DH would absolutely not have it.

LIsten to your head

@Forsure69

How very sad!! It's highly unacceptable to place boundaries and have people respect them otherwise your child will have mental health issue! Such bollocks!

Imagine ignoring a father's (possible) instinct- he doesn't feel comfortable- yet he is unreasonable! The world we live in today is toxic. People who choose to say no are the crazy ones causing mental issues- ok!
Hang on while I freely hand my kids over to you even tho my husband has concerns but who cares what he thinks cause your so such a nice person! It's nice that you devalue your partners feelings!

@Forsure69

Don’t forget that DP also MUST have strange tendencies if this is how he thinks… but fella from the school is 100% a trusted person cos (not all men)

"Don’t forget that DP also MUST have strange tendencies if this is how he thinks… but fella from the school is 100% a trusted person cos (not all men)"

@Hertsgirl10
Oh absolutely!! Such scandal to think irrationally of thy neighbour!

IME men in general are vvv cautious about their female partners, sisters, daughters etc. When it comes to men (and boys when daughter is older) just generally.

Their feelings and judgement of risk around this imo comes from a totally different place to the feelings and judgement the risk posed by men (boys) by women (and girls).

The DH has general discomfort. I would ask what exactly are you concerned about? The walk? Changing? Something you heard about this bloke? Etc.

When it comes to being all too ingrained to pretty much constantly keep male risk radar on. Noticing, assessing. Relaxing. Going into wary mode. Going elsewhere if think hmmm nah.

Women do it generally as second nature since girls. Often informed by experience sadly.

Obviously not infallible but without it we have no idea how much worse it would be. I bet a lot.

OTOH.

Male risk assessment of risk men to girls/ women. Applies usually to those they are related to, care about, are good friends with etc.

It's not IME individual risk assessment. It's a much more general worry about men (boys) full stop.

Its usually focussed on women/ girls they care about,. In this case DD. Chances are he'd be more relaxed with a son in there circs. Even though obv boys and girls are preyed on by child molesters.

Given that, realistically. Whose risk assessment is likely to be more considered, realistic?

Esp given the OH vague reason, generally uncomfortable.

I think it's bizarre swimming baths are deemed a controlled environment by some. They are open to the public. You'd have to be mad to think that safe for an unaccompanied 8 year old. My owned was sexually abused at an NCT coffee morning. Dear God there are some very naive people about.

It's a swimming lesson. So, organised.

The case of the female deputy head in the news now springs to mind.
She was also in charge of safeguarding, so would have been trusted 100% by those around her.
It's not every man or woman who will be an abuser, but if there's doubt, don't take the risk.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere

The case of the female deputy head in the news now springs to mind. She was also in charge of safeguarding, so would have been trusted 100% by those around her. It's not every man or woman who will be an abuser, but if there's doubt, don't take the risk.

@Treesandsheepeverywhere

I saw that this morning and thought of all these trusting women that leave their kids with so called trusted adults, and felt so sad. Especially sad that so many of us that are always 100% on protecting out children were mocked on here, but as I said before I know my children will be protected it’s up to others to do it with theirs.

Anyway the discussion would never have happened or be up for debate, just going by the title. If my partner is uncomfortable about anything to do with our children then I would never allow it to happen.

It seems everyone that has so much respect for random man at school has no respect for the child’s actually father, including his wife.

I saw that this morning and thought of all these trusting women that leave their kids with so called trusted adults, and felt so sad.

This was a teacher though, wasn't it? So would you not let your child go to school if even so called trusted adults are to be feared?

If the pool has separate male and female changing rooms then this wouldn’t bother me.
Most swimming pools/leisure centres in this situation have a policy that all dc aged 8 and over get changed in their own gender changing rooms and unless they have a disability or other SN should be able to get changed without adult assistance. Indeed when my DC’s swimming lessons first started back post lockdown and the covid guidelines were stricter, all parents of children over 8 were expected to drop their DC at the door and collect from a separate exit in order to keep the number of people in the centre to a minimum and they had to arrive swim ready and change themselves afterwards.
If the changing facilities are like a changing village, so basically this other dad and indeed other adult males could be in close proximity in the changing rooms whilst your DD is in there I can see why your DH has his reservations tbh though.

@Bovrilly

I saw that this morning and thought of all these trusting women that leave their kids with so called trusted adults, and felt so sad.

This was a teacher though, wasn't it? So would you not let your child go to school if even so called trusted adults are to be feared?

@Bovrilly

Is the deputy head teacher and head of child protection not a teacher to you?

Even after hearing that you’re still so determined to say there’s minimal risk for all of these things…

I mean the deputy head and head of child protection filmed herself and her husband raping a child under 13. I know you all say that this is rare, but it’s not is it? And yes she is a teacher, isn’t she? Not only a teacher the head child protection officer.

My children go to school but they are taught from an early age risks of situations, even at school. And by the comments on here like, you must be in constant anxiety and the other things, I can see that a lot of parents don’t even consider some situations being a risk. Which is such a shame.

There is risk in lots of situations and comparing Child abuse as likely as being hit by a meteorite, like OP said upthread just shows how naive people are with their children.

Yes I was just checking it was the same story. I was wondering how you handle letting your child go to school when some teachers are predators. As the argument about the OP's situation seems to be that some men are predators so don't let one look after your child.

Of course we trust teachers etc but the thing was OP saying she trusts this man 100%. Some people have different versions of themselves where they behave a certain way with one group of people and different woth another.
Just the other day there was a thread where someone commented about her dad knowing one person as two separate people because said person behaved differently in different setting.
So, OP trusts the version this man has presented to her, she doesn't know if this is how he is all of the time.
People are let down and disappointed by people they trust, trust can be broken, so for that reason, I wouldn't claim to know someone's character 100%.
As @57Hertsgirl10 says, if OP had managed to convince her DH that the friend was ok, this thread wouldn't be here.

People are let down and disappointed by people they trust, trust can be broken

Yes I understand that's an argument against letting the family friend take the DD swimming, some men are predators, you can't know for sure, any risk however small is too great. But I am asking how people handle letting a child go to school when it's known that paedophiles seek out jobs that give them access to children.

@Eastie77Returns

Ok, fair enough. Consensus seems to be that I’m BU. I’m surprised so many people would feel uncomfortable with this considering it’s someone I’ve known for many years, he’s not a random parent I’ve chatted to in passing.

Obviously I wouldn’t have agreed to this if DD was unable to get dressed unaided.

I don't see why you having "known him for many years" is relevant. Do you think paedophiles don't have people they've known for years & years? Do you think they all know that their long term friend/acquaintance/family member are a paedophile? Of course not! They all probably think they're lovely people!

As long as she's able to dress herself and doesn't need help in the changing room then I think it's fine but I would talk to your DP and ask what he's worried about

As an update, DP found a Saturday morning slot for the swimming lesson and announced he would take DD to that. He then began grumbling non stop because this meant he would have a hectic day since he takes DS to football on Saturday afternoons. As an aside, he leaves DS there with male coaches who are complete strangers to us but he has no issue with that...

We then found out the school dad will be sharing the rotation with his wife meaning that 90% of the time DD will be accompanied by me, the other school mum or the wife. DP declared he is happier with this and will finish work early on the ‘school dad’s day’ to take her. So he’ll just be sitting in the cafe with the school dad but if it makes him feel better, so be it.