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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

661 replies

Eastie77Returns · 18/12/2021 19:08

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

OP posts:
Double3xposure · 21/12/2021 09:40

Thank you @Hertsgirl10 and @HangingOutWithTheSandman for so eloquently making my point for me.

marcopront · 21/12/2021 09:42

@BraveGoldie

You have mentioned a lot of risks but none of them are specifically about the scenario under discussion.

There are two possibilities

  1. Long term male friend and the mother independently walk children to the pool and sit in the cafe

  2. Long term male friend walks the OP's DD to the pool and sits in the cafe.

How are the risks greater in possibility 2?

Skeumorph · 21/12/2021 09:49

Looking at it from another perspective, I'd be unhappy with this precisely BECAUSE the adult in charge would by definition not be able to supervise her properly.

At age 8 I'd prefer a female to be the adult in question, getting changed in the next cubicle or able to be there in the family/female changing.

I wouldn't want her changing AT ALL in a mixed sex changing village unless there were individual cubicles with floor-to-ceiling doors and even then, at 8 I'd be not entirely happy with her having to be responsible for herself with no adult directly around.

Drunkpanda · 21/12/2021 10:01

OP could go along for the first few times to see the lie of the land, do the parents go in to the changing area, how busy is it, any other mothers hanging around at the start and end. This would also ensure dd knows what to do - cubicle on her own, can manage the swim suit etc. And Op could sit in the cafe with the dad and get to know him better, see how her instincts feel then.

JuergenSchwarzwald · 21/12/2021 10:05

@Drunkpanda

OP could go along for the first few times to see the lie of the land, do the parents go in to the changing area, how busy is it, any other mothers hanging around at the start and end. This would also ensure dd knows what to do - cubicle on her own, can manage the swim suit etc. And Op could sit in the cafe with the dad and get to know him better, see how her instincts feel then.
The OP knows the dad really well and also knows the layout of the pool etc.
JuergenSchwarzwald · 21/12/2021 10:05

And also the OP's DH should go along, as he's the one who's not happy with the arrangements the OP has made.

Mischance · 21/12/2021 10:06

How sad it is that all men are assumed to be abusers until proven otherwise. When did we all become so afraid of half the human race? I would hate to be a man, or to have sons. What a state we are in.

This child will be in a car with other children and not on her own with this perceived threat.

Unless he has evidence that this man is some sort of threat then I think he is BU.

Drunkpanda · 21/12/2021 10:12

She won't be in a car at all, they will be walking.
I think if she hasn't done lessons there before no one does quite know how it works - posters have said she might not manage changing alone, or the parents might be in helping them - by going along she can see what happens.

Treesandsheepeverywhere · 21/12/2021 10:13

How do you trust him 100% though OP? Some of those close to abusers, are always shocked when they're caught as "he/she is such a lovely person and the last person you'd suspect".....
We had a well loved teacher who abused girls in a full primary school classroom where one of the students was his own granddaughter. Putting his hands under the desk whilst leaning over to cover what he was doing. Lasted seconds for him but a lifetime for those involved.
Not saying Your friend is an/potential abuser but I don't see how you can say you trust him 100%.

BraveGoldie · 21/12/2021 10:17

[quote marcopront]@BraveGoldie

You have mentioned a lot of risks but none of them are specifically about the scenario under discussion.

There are two possibilities

  1. Long term male friend and the mother independently walk children to the pool and sit in the cafe

  2. Long term male friend walks the OP's DD to the pool and sits in the cafe.

How are the risks greater in possibility 2?[/quote]
Because if I was the attending mum I wouldn't sit in the cafe when my dd is changing I would be in the changing area keeping an eye on her.

And, if the father is on his own, we only have his word that he is in the cafe. If he is not trustworthy, he may be messing with my daughter in the changing area he has legitimate access to. And assuming he is trustworthy and in the cafe , and I am not there, then my dd is unsupervised in changing area that I don't consider completely safe for the reasons I said.

marcopront · 21/12/2021 10:20

@Drunkpanda

She won't be in a car at all, they will be walking. I think if she hasn't done lessons there before no one does quite know how it works - posters have said she might not manage changing alone, or the parents might be in helping them - by going along she can see what happens.
Have you read the OP's posts?

The classes have been happening for a while. She know the pool and she knows her daughter can change on her own.

Mousemay · 21/12/2021 10:30

Sadly a friend told me about her dads life long friend who had went on holidays with them and knew since she was a baby. They all had a shared hobby and got to the point where one time the father couldn't go on the booked dive so it was just the daughter and the fathers friend that went on the excursion. He raped her that night and she could never bring herself to tell her dad as it was his lifelong friend. I never trust anyone to take my dd due to my own experiences and others that I learned of in group therapy which were all always known to the family. You can never be too careful especially on an activity where she will be undressing.

Hertsgirl10 · 21/12/2021 10:35

@Double3xposure

Thank you *@Hertsgirl10 and @HangingOutWithTheSandman* for so eloquently making my point for me.
@Double3xposure

I didn’t realise you had one, what you said just sounded like strange assumptions and judgements, and was irrelevant to what anyone said.

FavouriteMug · 21/12/2021 10:37

How many times on this forum do we (as women), tell each other to trust our gut feeling or instinct?

Your husbands 'gut' is telling him he's unhappy.

Do we ignore men's feelings on safeguarding now and only listen to our own?

Whywonttheyhelpme · 21/12/2021 10:37

Some of these posts are utterly ridiculous.

OP the only way you can 100% guarantee your child’s safety is to take her yourself. However you know deep down the chances of this guy doing anything to your DD are slim to nil.

Not all men are perverts
Not all women are safe, so why trust the other mum and not the dad.
He is going to be in a public place with other children and parents present.
You DD knows him well & has been to their house for play dates- she is comfortable with this guy.

Mousemay · 21/12/2021 10:38

Mischance- the stats are there have a look. March 2020 4.9 million sexual crimes against females. 98.5%committed by males. Sadly it is now the world we live in and boundaries and safeguarding are there for a reason.

Skeumorph · 21/12/2021 10:45

@Mischance

How sad it is that all men are assumed to be abusers until proven otherwise. When did we all become so afraid of half the human race? I would hate to be a man, or to have sons. What a state we are in.

This child will be in a car with other children and not on her own with this perceived threat.

Unless he has evidence that this man is some sort of threat then I think he is BU.

Yes it is sad isn’t it?

Make that point to the MEN because they are the only ones who are responsible for it and the only ones who can change it.

BlingLoving · 21/12/2021 10:50

@Mousemay

Sadly a friend told me about her dads life long friend who had went on holidays with them and knew since she was a baby. They all had a shared hobby and got to the point where one time the father couldn't go on the booked dive so it was just the daughter and the fathers friend that went on the excursion. He raped her that night and she could never bring herself to tell her dad as it was his lifelong friend. I never trust anyone to take my dd due to my own experiences and others that I learned of in group therapy which were all always known to the family. You can never be too careful especially on an activity where she will be undressing.
That is an awful story. But the issue with stories like this for me is that there are lots of awful stories - a child killed in a car accident A child drowned A child killed by running across the road A child killed when they fell off their bike

But in most cases, we all continue to allow our children to travel in cars, walk on roads, ride their bikes, swim etc. We do it all with the best processes in place to protect them. But when it comes to abuse, one story is enough to decide a child should never be with another adult besides its mother ever again. We need genuine risk assessment in each case, not blanket decision making that doesn't take real risks into account.

An example - there is a small pedestrian bridge on one side of my road and on the other there is a small pedestrianised path that runs parallel to the main road leading from my road to another main road. Many families I know are paranoid about the pedestrian bridge and won't allow their children to walk on it. However, the bridge and the path leading to it are well lit, there is nowhere for anyone to hide and, in the nearly 15 years I have lived here, I have not heard of a single incident there (although DS does tell me that sometimes the teenagers will be there teasing each other and messing about a bit).

The other path however, while overlooked by not one but two main roads, is very dark (at night) and has many bushes. I am aware of at least 2 muggings on that path, one in broad daylight. But no one thinks twice about walking up and down it.

Risk assessment is poor.

Mousemay · 21/12/2021 11:28

I accept your point however when you are a victim of sexual abuse it never leaves you and you remember the opportunities that these people took to carry out the abuse. I think when you don't have that experience you see men and the world in a different way. I wish we had the luxury of seeing men through your eyes but unfortunately many, many people don't and all we have is the power to reduce the risk and try to prevent it happening to our own. That's not paranoia that's just common sense.

massiveblob · 21/12/2021 11:56

Those saying the child is at risk whilst getting changed in a cubicle. This is what happens at school swim lessons when male teachers and staff are present also. I don't know how you eliminate it. At age 8/9/10 my DD would not have expected me to lurk right outside her cubicle. (I'd be getting changed in my own one).
By 9 most pools allow them to swim alone if competent.
What age would you deem safe? Or never?

Geppili · 21/12/2021 12:01

Listen to your husband. Better safe than sorry.

Fanmango · 21/12/2021 12:08

@Mousemay

I accept your point however when you are a victim of sexual abuse it never leaves you and you remember the opportunities that these people took to carry out the abuse. I think when you don't have that experience you see men and the world in a different way. I wish we had the luxury of seeing men through your eyes but unfortunately many, many people don't and all we have is the power to reduce the risk and try to prevent it happening to our own. That's not paranoia that's just common sense.
Its not common sense to never let a child go anywhere with a man when they won't be alone with them at any point though. The women I went to university with who had the most reckless approach to being around men were those who admit to having very over protective parents growing up. Of course make risk assessments, be wary, but its important, sadly, to equip children with confidence in what to do
Mousemay · 21/12/2021 12:15

I never said I never allowed my dd to go anywhere with anyone and it's a huge assumption that because we are careful that we never explain how/what to do if a situation arises and therefore she is going to grow up not knowing how to be with men. We do our best to teach her how to handle situations and lots of other things that help her have boundaries. We're not going around dragging her away from men shouting watch out for the monster ffs!

marcopront · 21/12/2021 12:22

@Mousemay

I never said I never allowed my dd to go anywhere with anyone and it's a huge assumption that because we are careful that we never explain how/what to do if a situation arises and therefore she is going to grow up not knowing how to be with men. We do our best to teach her how to handle situations and lots of other things that help her have boundaries. We're not going around dragging her away from men shouting watch out for the monster ffs!
Isn't part of teaching them to be safe putting them in a controlled environment with information on how to react.
Mousemay · 21/12/2021 12:32

Haven't you read what I said we do teach her how to react and give her confidence that she can always speak to us no matter what the situation. You respond as if we don't allow male interaction and hide her away Confused