DP uncomfortable about a school run dad taking DD swimming

[Eastie77Returns]

DD (8) will be attending swimming lessons at a new venue in the New Year. There are a couple of other kids in her class who attend lessons at the same pool, I am friends with both sets of parents. I was chatting to the dad of one of the kids and he mentioned that he and and the other child’s mum take it in turns to take both children swimming each week. He asked if I’d like to join the ‘rotation’ which would mean taking all 3 kids every 3 weeks and I said I’d be happy to. We all live a few minutes walk from each other and DD knows the 2 boys well. I’d already discussed this with the other mum so she is on board.

DP has announced he is uncomfortable about the arrangement as there is a male parent involved (when I originally mentioned the plan to him he thought it would only be mums). I think he is being absolutely ridiculous, I have known the school dad since our children were 2 years old and DD adores him.

However I discussed this with a friend who said she 100% understands why DP is unhappy and I need to see this from his point of view. AIBU??

@marcopront as she wouldn’t personally be there, this would be down to trust. From her husband’s POV he only knows this guy in passing. That would give me cause for concern too. That’s my opinion 🤷‍♀️

@Eastie77Returns

Lol at the parents who would not allow their child to take part in any activity where there is a 0.00001 chance they might come to harm.

How does that work in practice? Do you allow them to leave the house and go to school? Because there’s always a chance a meteorite might fall and hit them on the way...

@Eastie77Returns

Lol at all the posters that said that? Literally no one’s said that.

So what are you gonna do?

[quote Samsung37]@marcopront as she wouldn’t personally be there, this would be down to trust. From her husband’s POV he only knows this guy in passing. That would give me cause for concern too. That’s my opinion 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
So if the scenario was different to the one described you would have concerns.

@Ontheblink

I’m with your DP on this. I would not be sending my dd in this situation. Even if there is a 0.00001 chance of it happening, it’s a risk I would not be willing to take.

@Hertsgirl10

*You missed this post
*
*Lol at all the posters that said that? Literally no one’s said that.

So what are you gonna do?*

Well, I can understand your partners pov. So yes in answer to your original question yabu not to see his pov. I think if you aren’t both in agreement you’ll have to find another arrangement.

Can’t imagine my daughter would be happy with that scenario at all but she’s not NT and needs help with dressing so not applicable here.

@macropront

They didn’t say they won’t send their kids to any activity or school though?
Unless I missed something else I think they mean in these circumstances, they won’t send their child, like the husband.

Those who have compared this to car journeys and going to school. I consider those to be necessary, my child going for swimming lessons with someone who isn’t their parent is not. Ffs

I think he's being OTT. She's 8 so a good age where she won't need help dressing. Plus 2 other children there

OP has made a good summary of her original question & the spread of views of anyone had read the full thread. Shes assessed all views &former a decision. The end

I don't think you can't predict who's an abuser. Their mum could just as easily harm your child as anyone else. But I think his feelings should be respected, just as if it was you feeling them. He just wants to protect his child and if it causes an minor inconvenience but makes him feel more at ease then I think it's worth it.

Sounds to me like you didn’t really want to hear anyone else’s opinion if it differs from your own. Describing those with alternative views to you as ‘batshit’ says a lot about you and your willingness to take other valid views into account

Well I suspect OP wasn't expecting the way the thread has gone and I can't blame her for that really having read through the comments! Drowning in a supervised swimming lesson ....when her question was about ther DPs views on an arrangement to get to said swimming lesson? Abuse during a non existent drive? Cameras sliding over and under changing room doors? A lack if sleepovers signalling there is " more to this story!" She just asked for views on her DPs reservations about another Dad taking their daughter to a lesson. Not views on her even letting her daughter go in case she drowns. Or views on what might happen in a changing room with cameras. Or comments on sleepovers!!

She just asked for views on her DPs reservations about another Dad taking their daughter to a lesson
She didn't just get that though, did she!

No it's gone rather sideways. For understandable reasons. Wrote an essay upthread about it!

The vote is 71% OP NBU so that helps OP hopefully!

She just asked for views on her DPs reservations about another Dad taking their daughter to a lesson
She didn't just get that though, did she!

This is a parenting forum. When someone with a child says she trusts a random man completely and there’s less than zero chance of them harming her child, then others are going to feel strongly about it. Its a naive and dangerous thought process.

@HangingOutWithTheSandman This isn't a random man. This is a another parent that she and he daughter has known for years, even spending time at his house. Of course there is a chance that he is a potential sexual abuser, but then again so could her teacher, her grandfather, and even her father himself.

The point is that if the man is not going into the changing room to assist then this activity does not increase the risk of this man sexual abusing her daughter at all.

When someone with a child says she trusts a random man completely and there’s less than zero chance of them harming her child, then others are going to feel strongly about it. Its a naive and dangerous thought process.

I too would like to know where the opportunity is for this man (who is not random) to abuse the OP's DD. On the way there, on the way back or while she is swimming and he's in the cafe?
And also why people think that he would ignore all the much better opportunities he has had before when the DD has been at his house, and instead wait for years before choosing a busy changing room or street to abuse her.
It's irrational to avoid this situation when the risk is so tiny. We let our children do things all the time that have risk involved - they travel in cars, they climb on things, they eat food they can choke on, they cross roads, they play sports, they get vaccinated. The risk of harm in all these situations is there but so small that the benefit outweighs it.

What @Bovrilly said. There is no point in the scenario where the dad would be alone and not in public with the child and not in public view of loads of people & the other children; walking to and from a supervised swim lesson with no other adults in the pool with a child who needs zero assistance on changing rooms with individual cubicles..
Several have asked where the risk is and no answers. A lot of the responses (not all) were not based on the actual scenario and posters hasn't read the info.

Describing those with alternative views to you as ‘batshit’ says a lot about you and your willingness to take other valid views into account

@Samsung37 she said one particular poster's view was batshit. And it was. The person said that if OP's daughter hadn't had a sleepover at the man's house, then it must mean that OP had reservations abbot him. Which was ridiculous as no sleepover had never been suggested or asked for.

She's absolutely entitled to describe a ridiculous post as batshit. That doesn't mean she's not listening to other points of view in general. Though this thread has had more than its share of ridiculous responses.

You know what’s funny about this thread? The people that ate all for the fella not being an issue are the ones that have gone straight for … the risk is low, where can he sexually abuse her blah blah, there’s more to trust people for when they care for your kids you know, do people only assess oh she/he don’t look noncey thats fine leave the most important people you know with them?
It’s not just sexual abuse but it’s interesting that every one your minds went there first, and presumed it’s because it’s a man when multiple people said it makes no difference to them.
And then gone on to say well the dad must be iffy- but the rest of us are the batshit ones 😂 I mean your DP has been accused of having strange tendencies, no reaction! That alone speaks volumes.

I did answer on the risks. The communal changing, to me, is a risk at that age either without parental supervision, or with a supervising adult I did not absolutely trust, or one whose attention is divided between multiple children.

1. At that age, many children have not absorbed approaches to privacy and unsupervised may well not go into a cubicle and/or may not lock the door. Or would unlock the door if somebody knocked and asked them to.

1. She will not even have other children as company, as the schoolmates are boys and if she does have self consciousness at that age, she may go off to a different section to change

1. If she is close to the boy schoolmates, I don't think it's impossible one of them could be reaching an age of being curious and being inappropriate.

1. A communal changing area is an obvious place for an abuser to be drawn to, and a girl in her swimming costume, needing to change, who clearly doesn't have an adult closely watching her would be an obvious target.

1. While there are other people around there can be possibilities for mistreatment amid the chaos (everybody is busy with their own child; everybody assumes that a random adult is there to oversee a child). For example, when I was first sexually harassed it was in a packed cable car. It was crowded and a guy felt up my ass- easy to do and impossible to prove because there were so many people.... similarly, an adult going into a cubicle with a child wouldn't be noticed or questioned. This is true for the accompanying father or anybody else.

1. As we know, the large majority of kids that age (or even grown people) can understandably respond to inappropriate situations questioning themselves/ freezing etc so it is highly unlikely that a victim would shout out etc to get the protection of other people around. Or tell anybody afterwards.

Quite simply it's a child, getting naked, and otherwise moving around very exposed in a swimsuit, in a space where lots of strangers can justify being, with no parental supervision.

I don't think the risk is huge, but those suggesting there is zero risk or it's paranoia, or we must be saying all men are abusers are wrong.

I think a very small proportion of men are abusers, but those who are, will absolutely target a communal swimming changing space like this, including people with jobs there, who would have even more legitimate reason to be there unquestioned. It's an ideal environment, at the very least to ogle young girls or boys in swimsuits, to 'brush up against them' while passing, or worse pose as a parent to get into a cubicle.

This isn't a random man. This is a another parent that she and he daughter has known for years, even spending time at his house. Of course there is a chance that he is a potential sexual abuser, but then again so could her teacher, her grandfather, and even her father himself

Exactly!

Those of you saying that you will not permit your daughter to do anything or go anywhere if there is ever the smallest risk that something may happen to her - you do realise, don’t you, that you are exposing your daughter to much higher risk from NOT doing something?

So , for example you don’t allow your daughter to play table tennis with her friends at school because there is a risk of muscle strain , a sprained ankle or a back elbow or knee injury.

But then she is missing out on all the good things that sport provides, such as reduced risk of obesity, increased cardiovascular fitness,
improved coordination and balance, learning to control emotions and channelling negative feelings is a positive way. Playing sport can help with depression and anxiety and Increases self-esteem and self-confidence.

Your daughter will suffer physically and psychologically because of your obsessive need to stop her doing anything that you perceive as having even the smallest risk. She will have been excluded from most social activities that are part of being a child and teenager in our culture.

If you don’t let her ride a bike, visit someone’s house , go out with her friends, travel in a car, use the internet or eat carry out food, how will she cope when she’s an adult and leaves home and has a chance to do all these things ? She will not have learned the appropriate skills at the normal time.

She will either take inappropriate risks herself, because you have not taught her how to risk assess.

Or she will continue to do nothing except stay at home , eat and watch TV/ game, as that’s all you have ever allowed her to do. And of course have a high risk of physical and mental health problems - much much higher than the tiny risks that you believe you saved her from.

Or is your plan to never let her leave home at all, so that you can continue to control her life and stop her doing anything you feel is a risk?

I’d suggest that this is about your own need to control your children and is not actually about protecting them. I’d gently but firmly encourage you to get some professional help for your anxiety before it ruins your child’s life.

@Double3xposure

Those of you saying that you will not permit your daughter to do anything or go anywhere if there is ever the smallest risk that something may happen to her - you do realise, don’t you, that you are exposing your daughter to much higher risk from NOT doing something?

So , for example you don’t allow your daughter to play table tennis with her friends at school because there is a risk of muscle strain , a sprained ankle or a back elbow or knee injury.

But then she is missing out on all the good things that sport provides, such as reduced risk of obesity, increased cardiovascular fitness,
improved coordination and balance, learning to control emotions and channelling negative feelings is a positive way. Playing sport can help with depression and anxiety and Increases self-esteem and self-confidence.

Your daughter will suffer physically and psychologically because of your obsessive need to stop her doing anything that you perceive as having even the smallest risk. She will have been excluded from most social activities that are part of being a child and teenager in our culture.

If you don’t let her ride a bike, visit someone’s house , go out with her friends, travel in a car, use the internet or eat carry out food, how will she cope when she’s an adult and leaves home and has a chance to do all these things ? She will not have learned the appropriate skills at the normal time.

She will either take inappropriate risks herself, because you have not taught her how to risk assess.

Or she will continue to do nothing except stay at home , eat and watch TV/ game, as that’s all you have ever allowed her to do. And of course have a high risk of physical and mental health problems - much much higher than the tiny risks that you believe you saved her from.

Or is your plan to never let her leave home at all, so that you can continue to control her life and stop her doing anything you feel is a risk?

I’d suggest that this is about your own need to control your children and is not actually about protecting them. I’d gently but firmly encourage you to get some professional help for your anxiety before it ruins your child’s life.

@Double3xposure

Who said that they never permit their daughter do anything or go anywhere?

No one said anything like that.
Just that people like to take their children places rather than relying on other parents.

Some of you have VERY weird ways you look at things, Or to try and price a point so protect your kids and that means you’re controlling, kids never leave home, only watch tv. eat, get physical and mental health issues- From taking your own children to and from activities.

Do people honestly think that because we don’t palm our kids with just anyone or a close school dad Iv known 10 years that my DP doesn’t know at all… does that make people think that the alternative is to keep children locked in the house with no other human contact, curtains closed and stuck in front of the tv forever and must be a control freak 😂 There seems to not be much balance in your minds.

Can’t believe that leaving your own children with people that you truly know and trust is such a strange idea to people, but it explains a lot of things we see in the papers.

And yea the mum here knows and trusts him shes basically his sister known him 10 years her kid adored him or whatever, but the child’s dad doesn’t know or trust him so that doesn’t make sense how he’s a trusted adult, even if her dad isn’t comfortable it’s ok.

palm our kids with just anyone

Yeah she’s “palming” her kids off with anyone.

@BraveGoldie

I did answer on the risks. The communal changing, to me, is a risk at that age either without parental supervision, or with a supervising adult I did not absolutely trust, or one whose attention is divided between multiple children.

1. At that age, many children have not absorbed approaches to privacy and unsupervised may well not go into a cubicle and/or may not lock the door. Or would unlock the door if somebody knocked and asked them to.

1. She will not even have other children as company, as the schoolmates are boys and if she does have self consciousness at that age, she may go off to a different section to change

1. If she is close to the boy schoolmates, I don't think it's impossible one of them could be reaching an age of being curious and being inappropriate.

1. A communal changing area is an obvious place for an abuser to be drawn to, and a girl in her swimming costume, needing to change, who clearly doesn't have an adult closely watching her would be an obvious target.

1. While there are other people around there can be possibilities for mistreatment amid the chaos (everybody is busy with their own child; everybody assumes that a random adult is there to oversee a child). For example, when I was first sexually harassed it was in a packed cable car. It was crowded and a guy felt up my ass- easy to do and impossible to prove because there were so many people.... similarly, an adult going into a cubicle with a child wouldn't be noticed or questioned. This is true for the accompanying father or anybody else.

1. As we know, the large majority of kids that age (or even grown people) can understandably respond to inappropriate situations questioning themselves/ freezing etc so it is highly unlikely that a victim would shout out etc to get the protection of other people around. Or tell anybody afterwards.

Quite simply it's a child, getting naked, and otherwise moving around very exposed in a swimsuit, in a space where lots of strangers can justify being, with no parental supervision.

I don't think the risk is huge, but those suggesting there is zero risk or it's paranoia, or we must be saying all men are abusers are wrong.

I think a very small proportion of men are abusers, but those who are, will absolutely target a communal swimming changing space like this, including people with jobs there, who would have even more legitimate reason to be there unquestioned. It's an ideal environment, at the very least to ogle young girls or boys in swimsuits, to 'brush up against them' while passing, or worse pose as a parent to get into a cubicle.

@BraveGoldie

I know it’s the people that have reservations that can see all dangers, it’s the people that are casual with their kids who’s minds have gone straight for the sexual abuse side and no other dangers at all, they took it to that side and the fact it’s because it’s a man, presuming we that do mind who we leave our kids with only worry about our kids being sexually assaulted. They saw all the potential dangers in this post then commented to turn it all on people that agreed with DP.

I wonder what the reaction on here would be like if a mum came on and said my DP signed daughter/son for swimming and I’m working but my DP’s buddy from up the school will take child in but I’m not comfortable.
I suspect that would be a very difficult thread, it would involve comments like tell DP to take her then and why’s he farming is jobs out to other parents, he’s lazy, why did he sign her up if he can’t be arsed to take her and you can’t trust another man etc.

This isn't a random man. This is a another parent that she and he daughter has known for years, even spending time at his house. Of course there is a chance that he is a potential sexual abuser, but then again so could her teacher, her grandfather, and even her father himself.

It is a random man. Has she spent hours and hours each week with him? Has she seen how he behaves in various situations?
Schools have systems in place to minimise the risks. Family, you will have spent more time, lived with and can make a better judgement. If you haven’t, don’t let them take your child somewhere as a lone adult male.

Anyway, not my children, mine are safe and not put in the path of men I don’t know. I hope OP keeps her daughter safe too but at least she has one parent who is looking out for her.