To think this is pretty fucking awful?

[WWYD2020]

We have to stay in, waiting for test results and feel really quite ill so going out was not an option.

Our toddler has full force slapped the baby in the head with both hands 4 fucking times today, just so incredibly fast that I can’t stop him sometimes. I can’t put the baby down anywhere whilst he’s awake because 1) toddler will maul him and 2) he will usually just cry, he loves to look at us and interact, the baby hates the sling don’t even mention that .

So here I am not able to put the baby down whilst he’s awake toddler getting jealous because I can’t put the baby down even though he’s part of the reason and if the baby manages to fall asleep in the pram carry cot he just gets toys thrown at him/pram shaken/jumped on by his big brother. By the end of the day I was settling the baby on our bed and he cried every time he saw his brother coming, it was heart breaking.

What the hell are you meant to do?
Can’t put baby down (cry or get hurt). Can’t hold him (toddler jealous). Can’t put him to sleep elsewhere in day as he’s not over 6m yet so has to stay with us. Can’t put him to sleep in pram(again, brother wakes him up, usually with violence). Can’t put pram in another room because our toddler will open the doors and get to him.

Why is he in pure attack mode?
He’s cutting 4 incisors atm, so definitely more whiney than usual but we’ve been giving nurofen when he looks like he’s in pain. Didn’t make a difference today.

Honesty practical help, or advice plz what do you do?
This is awful, no?

Also really sad to see the amount of wildly unreasonable expectations on this thread of a 17 month old baby. Hope you are okay OP. You sound like you are smashing a ridiculously tough situation, even if it doesn’t feel like it now.

@crystal1717 WTAF? Her eldest is still a baby himself. What you're describing is child abuse in my book. I wouldn't want anyone with your attitude within 20ft of my child.

A playpen sounds a good idea, but for the baby either lying down or in a bouncy chair. Then you have your hands free for cuddles with your toddler, reading stories, messy play, dancing. I spent 3 months in hospital when pregnant with my 2nd one, so had to be particularly careful to spend time with my eldest daughter who had been without me. Hope things get better and that you feel better soon, too.

Absolutely agree @AliceW89
The post you quoted If the child is laughing back you need to ramp it up. (Pull by arm to other location, and shout in face until child crying is quite usual practice. 'How dare you behave like this'. Also remove toys and playtime.)
Is chilling and abusive to any child, but to a fucking 1.5 year old?!! Evil.

Hi, just read your update and this may or may not work given the eldest young age.

My sons are 3 1/2 and 10 months. My eldest will start to hit the baby if he feels he isn't getting attention and wants to get a reaction from me. Tried naughty step doesn't work.

Even when he is getting attention sometimes he just gets too rough. If he isn't listening to me or is getting rough with the baby I will say they mummy isn't playing anymore and pick up baby and leave the room. Give it a minute and return. That works the best with my toddler.

I worked with a family (nanny) who had a cot in the living room, set to the raised level, and put the baby gym or moses basket or whatever in there. Out of reach (and sight!) or the toddler and kinder on your back when you're interacting.

Does your toddler have a doll? If not get him one, plus accessories, for Christmas. If he wants to beat it up that's ok, just ignore, but when he's kind with it praise him.

For any 'high value' Christmas gifts he gets (stuff he really loves) keep it put away most of the time but bring it out as and when you want to spend some one-on-one time with the tiny one. He'll be distracted and will eventually learn to associate the baby with extra-fun toys.

You havent spoken too soon OP. you dont just cure the jealousy with one episode of quality time. Your older baby will need lots of reassurance that they are still your baby and your priority. They didnt ask to be in this situation. Unlike a twin, he knows that the other baby didnt used to be there and in those days he had more attention. As it is, his whole first year of life you will have been pregnant and now he is playing second fiddle to this other person. From his point of view he has every reason to hit the baby, plus it makes it make noises. Its a win/win.
We need to find a way to make the older baby feel more secure so he doesnt resent the little one. He has big feelings he cant help.
If you play this right while theyre little, then it will be a lovely age gap when theyre older.

Can you get your mum to come and stay to watch the youngest one

The baby is old enough to go in their own room with a video monitor. You can get other monitors to check their breathing etc if you feel anxious. It sounds like that's the only way really, your other little one is still a baby themself. Honestly, you must be exhausted so don't be hard on yourself at all.

I can't see why the baby can't be put in a nursery or your room to sleep on his own ? You can put a monitor in the room.
You really need to address the issue with the toddler or the baby is going to be seriously hurt especially if he is hitting him round the head.
I'm not surprised that the baby is terrified of him.
Put the baby to bed for naps etc and during this time give the toddler attention.

Do you have a garden? Can you wrap up warm and let the toddler burn off energy playing in the garden (give him toy cars, lorries, pebbles, leaves, mud pies and pretend cooking with old pans, outdoor painting /chalk etc etc). Let the baby sleep outside in the pram next to you while you play with toddler?? It's HARD but it will get easier... my two are older now but have a similar age gap and I remember those days very well and could never leave them alone together at first, it's hard work.
I agree with those saying to emphasise what a helpful big boy your toddler is - give lots of praise for good behaviour and kindness towards baby and special privileges e.g. extra story/extra game with you. Don't give too much attention to the bad behaviour.

@MichelleScarn

Absolutely agree *@AliceW89* The post you quoted If the child is laughing back you need to ramp it up. (Pull by arm to other location, and shout in face until child crying is quite usual practice. 'How dare you behave like this'. Also remove toys and playtime.) Is chilling and abusive to any child, but to a fucking 1.5 year old?!! Evil.

If a social worker was to read that a parent uses that practice with their children there would be serious concerns for the child's wellbeing.

Don’t forget to baby your older one too! Sometimes you can be all “you’re a BIG BOY” but they don’t want to be…I would have some times where you bundle him right up like a newborn and cradle him and talk softly and do all the little baby stuff you’d probably already stopped before the new baby came. They always like it and it makes them feel really cared for.

OK I am prepared to be told I am wrong but
put db in another room BUT get dh to put Cabin latch/hook & eye near the top door on the outside -this will keep toddler out & safe
I saw the tv series about the walton sextuplets & she use to put these on the bedroom door to stop dc getting in bedroom
I use to use them to keep dc getting in & keep them ultra safe from bedroom windows or inside bathroom door so if dc locked themselves in you could break in easily & you could lock the door against them (even more essential!)
The worst this does is leave a small hole if broken off

I have a tight age gap so I've been there. But honestly you need to be harder on your toddler, his behaviour is unacceptable.

You need to exercise your toddler like crazy. Out at all hours, he has lots of energy to burn. Even if you're feeling like you're knocking on deaths door you've got to hit the lemsip and push on through. Forget about covid, just stay away from other people/busy places.

It's doing none of you any good being cooped up at home.

No advice but you did well to mention the sling OP as that's all people ever advocate on MN (even when practically having a baby strapped to you 24/7 is a pain.)

Oh my, that takes me back - we have a similar age gap. What worked for us (and I know how bad this sounds!) was leaving the baby in her moses basket within a playpen in the corner of the living room while she slept (the playpen doesn't stop stuff being lobbed over the top but does prevent slapping etc 😬) while all attention was on the toddler. When the baby woke and cried, I'd roll my eyes at my toddler and pretend to tear myself away from our game, making comments like 'isn't she noisy! Shall we feed her so she's quiet again?' I swear for the first 6 months or so, I barely interacted with DD unless her big brother was at nursery/nap time or my DH was home to distract him. Even when feeding her I'd be chatting/singing/playing with DS so he didn't feel jealous or excluded. Just very lucky that DD was a very placid baby!

I've skipped a tonne of posts and just read yours OP, so v sorry if this has been said already, but mine would sometimes laugh if shouted at for something serious - it can, I think, be a nervous reaction to the shock. Alternatively there might be some cause-effect schema at work, where he's testing out repeatedly what you or the baby do when he does it. That doesn't help much but it might reassure you? Age wise, mine is much older now so it's a long time since I knew what age he did this but we had an issue with him and one of the dogs who would yelp if he got hold of an ear - he found it hilarious. We put gates up in the end, which I know is tricky for you as per your post, but until he grew beyond the behaviour, treating it almost like a compulsion and instigating damage control was the only way forward. Like the messy play idea someone had, hope it helps! My only other thought is you stop what you're doing when it happens, just say 'nope' and stand up and walk elsewhere with the baby. That might end up being a reaction he dislikes enough to ease up on it.

Put baby down and then you play with the toddler. Stay between baby and toddler.

When baby sleeps in pram put pram in other room and stay with toddler. I know you said they go in the next room but stay with the toddler and stop them. It's just very intense, I'm in the same ages group and you just cannot relax I'm afraid. It's just hard but it will get easier

Your eldest is just at a particularly violent phase of babyhood. One of my twins was a biter and she just didn’t get it that you can’t just walk up and bite your sister. Meanwhile her twin used to pull literal clumps of hair out of her head. Then one day (not the same day) it suddenly clicked for them why I was saying no. I remember the biter in particular, showing her (again) the mark she’d left on her sister and her eyes going wide with the realisation.

He will get there. Just maybe not fast enough to protect the newborn. In addition to all the above advice I would say repeat to yourself over and over that this is a phase and it will pass - helps stop the crazy overwhelmed feeling I found.

If you have a baby monitor you can leave baby in cot to sleep. Use that time to give toddler attention. Take toddler out to park and baby will be on buggy. Hopefully toddler will run around and get rid of excess energy.

Poor you! You can get room dividers (for dogs) - is one of these an option so you can keep both children in sight - do something quiet like drawing with the toddler while the baby speedos the other side of the divide? Or even get a dog pen for the baby?

I can't believe that people are sitting staring at their babies for the whole 6 months of their life . Don' t you sleep ?

@Pinkflask

Don’t forget to baby your older one too! Sometimes you can be all “you’re a BIG BOY” but they don’t want to be…I would have some times where you bundle him right up like a newborn and cradle him and talk softly and do all the little baby stuff you’d probably already stopped before the new baby came. They always like it and it makes them feel really cared for.

I think this is wonderful advice, give it a try OP.