To think this is pretty fucking awful?

[WWYD2020]

We have to stay in, waiting for test results and feel really quite ill so going out was not an option.

Our toddler has full force slapped the baby in the head with both hands 4 fucking times today, just so incredibly fast that I can’t stop him sometimes. I can’t put the baby down anywhere whilst he’s awake because 1) toddler will maul him and 2) he will usually just cry, he loves to look at us and interact, the baby hates the sling don’t even mention that .

So here I am not able to put the baby down whilst he’s awake toddler getting jealous because I can’t put the baby down even though he’s part of the reason and if the baby manages to fall asleep in the pram carry cot he just gets toys thrown at him/pram shaken/jumped on by his big brother. By the end of the day I was settling the baby on our bed and he cried every time he saw his brother coming, it was heart breaking.

What the hell are you meant to do?
Can’t put baby down (cry or get hurt). Can’t hold him (toddler jealous). Can’t put him to sleep elsewhere in day as he’s not over 6m yet so has to stay with us. Can’t put him to sleep in pram(again, brother wakes him up, usually with violence). Can’t put pram in another room because our toddler will open the doors and get to him.

Why is he in pure attack mode?
He’s cutting 4 incisors atm, so definitely more whiney than usual but we’ve been giving nurofen when he looks like he’s in pain. Didn’t make a difference today.

Honesty practical help, or advice plz what do you do?
This is awful, no?

OP I had this situation with the same age gap. It was awful and I remember thinking there was something wrong with the toddler. I had to keep a baby gate between them and go in between rooms. Bloody terrible time. Toddler was an absolute thug. He's now 11 and the most gorgeous, loving boy who couldn't be more protective of his little sister. Some toddlers are just like caged animals in the house, and it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them. I won't bore you with the steps we went through to solve it, but eventually, consistent discipline and distraction worked. He needed to be out and about an awful lot, and constantly kept busy to keep from being trouble. By the time I got him into school I was on my knees. He'd be in time out five times before breakfast until he was about three, but goodness he's been a lovely child since. I remember doing all the time outs and thinking 'this isn't working', but it was all going in, and eventually he grew through it. Baby sis got very tough indeed, and that hasn't done her any harm either. So my advice would be pick your strategy, be completely consistent, and give it time. It isn't going to change overnight but it will change if you keep being a broken record. Worth bearing in mind that some toddlers (and people in general) need an awful lot of structure to stay on the straight and narrow! Take heart, you will all get through this difficult time.

Playpen and put the baby in it (when OK to go down), not the toddler.

Also, I know this really isn’t the same situation but my nearly 3 year old smacked the puppy across the head very hard and laughed at me when I scolded him. Kids are just arseholes.

Tbf hitting the baby round the head is "really bad stuff" so don't be worried about saying a firm loud NO when it's needed. He is just a baby himself but he still can't damage the smaller baby!

Second the suggestions for paints/water/playdough etc etc. Create as much "yes space" as you can so that "no" can be saved for the non-negotiables like hurting the baby. See if you can find a load of cardboard boxes for him to stack/kick/hide in. That usually works wonders!

Also, a friend who had the same age gap and the same problem borrowed an old-fashioned pram - the sort that are quite high. It was too high for the toddler to reach the baby, and she could easily jiggle it to settle the baby. Would that be an option?

Travel cot... Take turns who goes in!!

Oh OP. I have a slightly smaller age gap and I do understand. This might not help now but I promise it gets better. It fact much better and next year it will be soo easy as they will both enjoy the same sort of activity. For now - What worked for me was strapping baby into an electric bouncy/rocking chair kind of a thing in the corner (the only thing that would stop it wailing) and then ignored it knowing it was safe and focussed entirely on the big one. We could then play with the baby’s toes or press the flashy buttons in the electric chair together but the main thing was to make it all about the big one. My mistake was To forget that the big one was still a baby and expect him to be a big brother/toddler and he really was still a baby. And I know you are stuck home now but invest in the best double buggy you can afford and get out out out whenever you can. It changes everything It WILL get easier.

We do have a room divider sized baby gate and a plasticy Amazon play pen fence thing but I am loathed to put the room divider up because I like pushing the pram around the house to keep his asleep/get him asleep/keep him safe.

Our toddler can Colombian the plastic amazon play pen now though so not sure that’s much use.

Climb!!!
Not columbian

@Santahatesbraisedcabbage

Travel cot... Take turns who goes in!!

Can one of the turns be me?

pours large glass of wine now everyone’s asleep

Oh my gosh I'm currently 41 weeks pregnant with a toddler and this is freaking me out.

Honestly? I'd get the toddler into childcare. And order more wine.

If I put the baby down in a chair it’s like I’m offering the bate for the lion, our toddler just wants to get on/in the chair with the baby then. Or throws something.

Tomorrow I’ll try messy play and leaving the baby sleep upstairs, we’ll get 3 hour stretches on our own to play then.

This doesn’t help but I wanted to offer some perspective.

I have a 6 year old and a nearly 2 year old. The nearly 2 year old is 22 months. And she is our BABY. There’s no way in which she isn’t a baby still. At 22 months she’s so small we can’t imagine her understanding an infant or the concept of an infant.

And yours is even younger at 17 months. You have massively huge expectations of him and you need support to be able to handle what’s effectively two babies at the same time

Sorry OP, this sounds hard. My sympathy.

Can you put baby within like a play pen or another area where todler would struggle to get too? Like inside a playpen, or as others have said behind stair gate. But within parameters of the room your in.

Maybe once baby is asleep try doing a quiet activity with older one like crafts/reading in high chair. Maybe some quality time while baby sleeps will reduce jealousy when baby is awake.

Would tolder engage with a dolly? My 13 month old loves her dolly, might help them to feel a bit more invovlved.

Good luck!

I had a similar age gap, they’re now 3 and 4. Sending you a hug as it is a very hard stage!!!! It gets better though, promise!

I used a travel cot for playpen (and yep, they both went in - separately!). Lots of walks but I see that’s not an option just now. Busy toddler on Instagram has some fab ideas for play at home that we used. Eg big plastic box with containers and stuff to pour (flood the kitchen!) she is also a fan of a random bath when you’re out of ideas (can put duplo in etc or food colouring)

Toddler definitely needs to be told it’s not ok to hit baby (we read a book called Hands Are Not For Hitting ad infinitum - then we had to buy Teeth Are Not For Biting…)

Tv is a tool you can use too, I’m not personally a fan of tablets etc for wee ones but I know lots of people don’t have a problem with it.

I felt at this stage I was just getting through the day. I think I was putting baby down for nap in our bedroom - not living room but with monitor - but honestly can’t remember.
Definitely try to get some 1-2-1 runs with toddler if you can, even 10 mins where you set a timer and follow his lead with what he wants to do.

It’s hard, it’s so hard! But you are doing an amazing job xxx

17 months is so young.

I think you need to put the napping baby in the room next to you so you can have some 1:1 with the eldest. Even if this means playing on the kitchen floor and the babies in the hall etc.

My eldest 2 were 15 months apart and the only positive thing I can say to you is that I was so tired and can't remember how hard it was. And I had a shit husband.

Have you asked him why he does it?
Ask him why he doesn’t like his sibling? It might be something easily sorted.
Do you explain why he can’t hit the baby, if he hits the baby then gets attention from you he is winning.
Is there a time of the day he is calmer and you could have him be nice to the baby and get lots of praise and attention hopefully he will soon learn that been nice gets him further than being bad.

@PinkPomeranian

I would have naps in a separate room and use a video monitor. The risk of injury by your toddler seems greater than the risk of being monitored from a nearby room.

100% this …my babies napped in another room regularly …just do regular checks .

I had a 13 month gap and a similarly punchy older baby, OP, so I completely sympathise. I used to put the older one on the naughty step in the hall a LOT. My top tip is to put a moses basket in a travel cot, so older child can't physically access younger child and the worst that can happen is a shower of soft toys.

I used to sit on the bathroom floor with DS2 in my lap and cry while DS1 shrieked outside the door and battered on it. It was fucking grim. Thankfully that's nearly a decade ago now and DS2 has learned to punch back (maybe not a good thing!!)

Oh boy! I went through the exact same thing when my 2 were little. There’s 19 months between my DS’s. I remember having to take the baby into the toilet with me as I couldn’t leave him alone with the toddler.

I spent one day putting the toddler on timeout everytime he hurt or did something to his baby brother, Which basically was everY time I took him off time out, he hit the baby again!

When DH got home from work That day, I sobbed so hard that he didn’t have a clue what I was trying to say! But We seemed to hit a turning point - The toddlers behaviour just suddenly stopped being so awful! (Although I was still wary About leaving the two unattended together)

I thought he was too young to understand Timeout and how his actions affect others/cause consequences but maybe it did the trick, Or maybe it was DH talking to him, or he just got bored of the game? I still don’t know, but it really came to a head that day yet was never Repeated 🤷‍♀️

A babies needs are more basic than a toddlers I’d say. So If I knew baby was due a feed/change and getting grisly, I would say “oh baby, I’m busy doing X with toddler, you will Just have to wait” and settle the toddler before Seeing to the baby, so toddler felt That his needs were being prioritised.

The first year with 2 under 2 was bloody hard work, but then I had it easier than my friends with larger age gaps as mine would entertain themselves.

However, they are now in their teens and it’s starting all over again!

Not tried the doll idea, sounds good will also put that to work too ❤️
Thank you.

Also will follow busy toddler, sounds just like what we need.

He can open all the doors downstairs (minus the front) so the baby would have to be upstairs behind the stair gate, but we have a monitor. I think you’re right, the risk from DS1 is more

@Onatree

This doesn’t help but I wanted to offer some perspective.

I have a 6 year old and a nearly 2 year old. The nearly 2 year old is 22 months. And she is our BABY. There’s no way in which she isn’t a baby still. At 22 months she’s so small we can’t imagine her understanding an infant or the concept of an infant.

And yours is even younger at 17 months. You have massively huge expectations of him and you need support to be able to handle what’s effectively two babies at the same time

I totally agree with this, your eldest is an age where he still needs 100% of your attention, he has no idea why this other little creature has come along and is taking you away from him. I take my hat off to you though, from watching friends have 2 under 2, it looks like hell on earth! I hope you can find some enjoyable moments amongst the chaos. (Disclaimer: we were aiming for an 18-24 month age gap, but Mother Nature had other ideas so we have a much bigger gap which in hindsight was a good thing for us!)

Your toddler loving messy play is great but don't make more work for yourself, aqua doddle are your friend. Get a nice big floor one that he can paint on, you don't have to use the special pen you could use anything but no mess to clear up afterwards.

What things does your toddler throw, you should be able to pick up indoor snowballs this time of year, throwing is an early years schema and some tots can't help them selves, indoor snowballs will stop anyone getting hurt or damage. Alternatively pair up a load of socks and get a bucket or hula hoop or similar to throw them in, you can play whilst holding the baby.

Definitely put the baby in his cot. It’s fine with a monitor. I would also be making sure the toddler takes a long nap.

At the toddler age mine was entertained for hours with a sink full of water and plastic cups. Shower curtain on the floor. Outside he like a big paintbrush and small bucket of water to ‘paint’ things.