To think this is pretty fucking awful?

[WWYD2020]

We have to stay in, waiting for test results and feel really quite ill so going out was not an option.

Our toddler has full force slapped the baby in the head with both hands 4 fucking times today, just so incredibly fast that I can’t stop him sometimes. I can’t put the baby down anywhere whilst he’s awake because 1) toddler will maul him and 2) he will usually just cry, he loves to look at us and interact, the baby hates the sling don’t even mention that .

So here I am not able to put the baby down whilst he’s awake toddler getting jealous because I can’t put the baby down even though he’s part of the reason and if the baby manages to fall asleep in the pram carry cot he just gets toys thrown at him/pram shaken/jumped on by his big brother. By the end of the day I was settling the baby on our bed and he cried every time he saw his brother coming, it was heart breaking.

What the hell are you meant to do?
Can’t put baby down (cry or get hurt). Can’t hold him (toddler jealous). Can’t put him to sleep elsewhere in day as he’s not over 6m yet so has to stay with us. Can’t put him to sleep in pram(again, brother wakes him up, usually with violence). Can’t put pram in another room because our toddler will open the doors and get to him.

Why is he in pure attack mode?
He’s cutting 4 incisors atm, so definitely more whiney than usual but we’ve been giving nurofen when he looks like he’s in pain. Didn’t make a difference today.

Honesty practical help, or advice plz what do you do?
This is awful, no?

Really feel for you op. I had a 3 year old with SN and developmental delay when I had my baby, it can be hard.

What helped when DS was being unkind to the baby, was telling him what I wanted him to do, not what I wanted him to stop doing. So instead of saying "no" all the time I said "kind/gentle hands" or "toys on floor". Keep language very basic 2/3 words if possible. Also helped saying "X first, then y", for example "baby name cuddle first, then toddler name cuddle"

We also had to DS proof the baby, as others have said, playpen with net sides for baby to be safe while you do things with your toddler.

It does get easier

Also, I know this really isn’t the same situation but my nearly 3 year old smacked the puppy across the head very hard and laughed at me when I scolded him. Kids are just arseholes.

My kids grew up with dogs and never ever hit them or their smaller siblings so no not all kids are arseholes.

Have you asked him why he does it?
Ask him why he doesn’t like his sibling? It might be something easily sorted.

He’s 17 months old. He probably doesn’t even know himself why he doesn’t like the baby, let alone be able to explain it!

Apologies. I was having a senior moment and said you were being unreasonable, whereas in actual fact, you’re being perfectly reasonable

Do you have a family member who can come round and help...if you do, then I feel like that is morally okay given this dire situation.

I had a 13 month gap and a similarly punchy older baby, OP, so I completely sympathise. I used to put the older one on the naughty step in the hall a LOT.

I sincerely hope you weren’t forcing a 13 month old baby to sit on the naughty step!

17 months is very young and I suspect he's trying to get attention if he laughed. Give no attention to bad behaviour and praise good. When he's hitting say no in a calm voice and remove him- when he's good get excited.

DD liked homemade playdough at that age (we just squished it and pressed different things in to see what pattern it made), and if it does get thrown, it's unlikely to do much harm. A tub of dry rice or pasta, with spoons, pan, jug, etc. was also popular (put an old sheet or something down so you can tip the stray rice back in, although that's less good if he's likely to fling handfuls of it). Shaving foam is also good fun, combine with toy vehicles, animals, etc. –you can do it in the bath and just wash toddler and toys down together at the end. Have you got a portable bouncer/seat for baby you could put in the bathroom whilst you do something like that?

We had lockdown in the Scottish winter when DD was that age. We got a lot of use out of a tunnel for indoor exercise (ours was a cardboard box) – crawl through it, push toys through it, chase a ball through it, etc. Chase the (soft) ball down the hall was also a good game. We may also have decided we could live with her riding her scuttlebug in the kitchen...

You already know that you've got to protect the baby, a hard toy hitting the wrong spot could really damage them. Toddler needs attention, which is hard to give without baby being present. Maybe persevere with sling, so you can keep baby safe while playing with elder child. Getting into a daily 'going out' routine to entertain toddler and wear them out will help you all. Fresh air routine is good for you all. Work out places that older one enjoys, tell them it's a special treat every day and it will be looked forward to. You need to get out and about, knowing that baby is safe & sibling being entertained & exhausted, hopefully. This time will pass, but needs firmness & routine, which you are doing, so keep going.

I haven't read the full thread, but I've seen a few threads recommending dividing and conquering. My concern about that approach is the toddler is going to see he only gets attention if the baby isn't there and that's only going to fuel jealousy/resentment. I think the toddler needs to see that the baby isn't replacing him but is in addition to him. It's not easy, mine are 19 months apart and I was bloody lucky. If my first child had the personality of my second I'm not sure I would have survived baby and toddlerhood lol

This is my age gap too. They're now 14 months and nearly 2.5, it's much better now so hang in there!

Best advice is

1. Playpen for the baby for when he's awake. We just put up a travel cot in the living room and filled it with toys, then they can still see you and feel part of the activies. Lots and lots and lots of attention for the toddler, I remember thinking I've just got to meet the babies needs (I.e keep them alive!) well showering toddler with attention.

1. Naps...my toddler was still napping and I managed to make sure one of baby's naps was the same time as the toddler so I had at least 1.5 hours a day alone.... Bliss! My baby was napping upstairs with the monitor on from a couple of months onwards, I didn't even know that was against guidelines. Both mine have been fine doing it. Or if they're in a pram or something like a baby box you could just have it in another room with the door ajar while you at with your toddler.

1. Can you afford childcare even for a day? I kept my toddler with the childminder 2 days a week and it was lifesaving for my sanity and for my toddler. They loved it, got to interact with others their age and gave me the much needed break and time my the baby.

1. Your partner needs to give you some time away. If you're breastfeeding I know that's tricky, so he should take the toddler to the park, swimming, soft play, anything! Just an hour (preferably when the baby's napping!) so you can regroup.

I promise you're at the hardest stage, it does get easier. There's still a bit of jealousy but they're so young it's like the baby has always been here and they have started to play a bit which melts your heart. Hang in there x

Big hugs, my oldest two were 17months apart and it was v.difficult! Get an angel care monitor with a breathing sensor to put your mind at rest x

Put the baby down and pay more attention to your toddler. Baby does not yet understand what's going on but toddler wants attention.
This was advice I was given in a similar situation and once I started to give my toddler more attention they settled down. Don't forget before you had the baby they had your undivide attention.

I had a similar age gap I never split them up, or left them alone.. every loo trip was with two children, ever shower etc etc. They need to learn you are a unit. ( it was really hard work)
I did exercise them twice a day though, an early 9am balance bike session or walk and an afternoon, after nap, park trip.
my eldest hated being excluded so any aggression was an exclusion. (popped in the hallway, on the other side of the stairgate)
I gave everyone equal amounts of attention, but anyone who didn't play nicely was removed.
They're lovely now. these things pass.

@PinkSyCo I’m surprised I’ve come across as insensitive asking for help on how to improve our situation.. ?

I do understand when people say ‘just put the baby down’ but in practical terms it isn’t quite that easy. For the first 8 weeks of his life he screamed/cried if awake and not feeding. It was horrific for everyone, not least his big brother who could frequently be seen holding his hands over his ears and crying too. We couldn’t just put the baby down, he would scream until he went blue and stopped breathing. One of us had to be holding him the whole time he was awake, usually the tiger in the tree hold.

It’s not quite so bad now, what ever was causing him that discomfort has eased because he can sit alone for short periods now and barely cries at all. He still isn’t the type to just get on with things on his own when he’s awake though.

Can’t remember who said, but I’m not breastfeeding now, I stopped a few weeks ago when we were trying to figure out what might be causing him to be in pain and going through each thing the GP prescribed. It also broke my heart to see DS1 looking so sad that I had the baby attached to me for hours on end everyday.

They do sleep at the same time in the day, usually anyway, older one still has 1.5-2 hours a day at the minute and DS2 is an absolute hero when it comes to sleep 😃.

Thank you everyone who is reassuring me it gets better with time. Just purchased that book recommended too.

Would he follow joe wick hey dugge exercise vidoes? The toddler I mean. My son is 5 so much older but he did those great and they wiped him out! Maybe baby yoga videos or something that will get rid of pent up energy in toddler and keep him occupied? ❤️

I don’t really have any advice, but just to say we’ve been there. I genuinely feared my toddler would seriously injure his baby sister if he got the chance. An awful time. But now they get on really well (most of the time) and are incredibly close. It does get easier

Have not read the whole thread so someone else may have suggested it already - had 2 similar age difference and similar problems. Tried all kinds of solutions /contraptions.
What did work was an old-fashioned big heavy high pram. Bouncy too high for toddler to attack, too heavy to pull over, nice and bouncy hood to hang interesting things from and movable to take baby with me. Also big enough as she got older to prop her up.

worth a look:

www.wikihow.com/Teach-Your-Child-Not-to-Hit-Others

Omg OP HUGS! You must’ve had such a fright every time older baby did that ! Poor baby , baby!
I’m with others, stick a camera on the littlest baby and have you got a SuzaHero or similar? You can get them on Facebook Marketplace etc for a lot cheaper?
As long as Baby Baby is on back and safe , the little Snuza /Owlet should keep you right. You can hear the Snuza beep through the camera easily.
Or as others have said - Travel cage, I mean cot

Crystal1717 your advice is absolute nonsense and as someone who has worked in nursery’s, if an adult behaved like you suggest toward a child, they would be disciplined.

This age gap is tough. Mine are only starting to get on better now at 11 and 12

Playpen.

Nurseries and schools discipline children very harshly

Load of shit.