To think this is pretty fucking awful?

[WWYD2020]

We have to stay in, waiting for test results and feel really quite ill so going out was not an option.

Our toddler has full force slapped the baby in the head with both hands 4 fucking times today, just so incredibly fast that I can’t stop him sometimes. I can’t put the baby down anywhere whilst he’s awake because 1) toddler will maul him and 2) he will usually just cry, he loves to look at us and interact, the baby hates the sling don’t even mention that .

So here I am not able to put the baby down whilst he’s awake toddler getting jealous because I can’t put the baby down even though he’s part of the reason and if the baby manages to fall asleep in the pram carry cot he just gets toys thrown at him/pram shaken/jumped on by his big brother. By the end of the day I was settling the baby on our bed and he cried every time he saw his brother coming, it was heart breaking.

What the hell are you meant to do?
Can’t put baby down (cry or get hurt). Can’t hold him (toddler jealous). Can’t put him to sleep elsewhere in day as he’s not over 6m yet so has to stay with us. Can’t put him to sleep in pram(again, brother wakes him up, usually with violence). Can’t put pram in another room because our toddler will open the doors and get to him.

Why is he in pure attack mode?
He’s cutting 4 incisors atm, so definitely more whiney than usual but we’ve been giving nurofen when he looks like he’s in pain. Didn’t make a difference today.

Honesty practical help, or advice plz what do you do?
This is awful, no?

You can put the baby in another room for naps (assuming you have a monitor), that advice is for when you’re both sleeping. You’ll be watching via the monitor so you’ll be alerted if something is wrong. That might give you a bit of a break. Are you and your husband doing things separately with the children in the evening, as it might help to do things all together to see he doesn’t have to compete for your attention (I.e. he will realise he still gets attention if it isn’t one-to-one).

Play pen or travel cot for baby. Dont pen the older one. Baby can watch and coo from a safe space. Older one is so young but I would do a firm no and remove if they hit the baby

Put the baby in his own cot in a separate room and use a monitor. He doesn’t need your breathing to regulate. Ours always slept in her cot with a monitor in the day. It’s safer than being hit with force by your older baby.

At the toddler age mine was entertained for hours with a sink full of water and plastic cups. Shower curtain on the floor

Or in an empty bath with the water in a small bucket (as long as you're sure he can't turn the bath taps on).

And cover the top of the pen with a net or something so missiles won't hit baby.

When the toddler hurts or tries to hurt baby, so no, don’t do that firmly. Then show concern and care and attention for the baby.
Try it consistently. Instead of punishing demonstrate that actions have consequences. Eventually he’ll see that by trying to hurt the baby, it is causing you to give more attention to baby, this reversing his behavior.

I'd stick a post on your local FB page to see if anyone has a playpen they are getting rid of.
When you need 10 minutes to go to the toilet, make dinner etc the toddler goes in and you take baby in bouncer to kitchen, hall, wherever is near you.
Learning to play safely on their own for short periods is an important skill.
You reward him for being good with your time and attention to do messy play or whatever he likes as soon as baby is baby is asleep. You could even move his basket into the playpen to ensure he's safely away if you turn your back.
The firm no and removing him is also needed for him to start learning

A bath.

Time the bath for when the baby needs a nap. Carry cot on the landing if you don’t feel happy putting baby in the cot, then stick the toddler in the bath for as long as you like. I’ve never known a kid get bored in the bath. Swap the toys around, lots of interaction with you, you should get some time just the two of you which it sounds like you both need.

If timing is lucky it could end up falling either side of feed/lunch so the toddler will nap afterwards?

I had a small age gap and I had a playpen with mesh sides and the baby used to nap in a moses basket in the playpen. The toddler used to forget about the baby completely when he couldn't see him.
I also let the toddler watch CeeBeebies for an hour every afternoon to give me a break and it was fine- he's a uni student now so the television watching did no harm.

Sorry not rtft as so long, but if you're worried about baby upstairs, put and Angel care monitor in then you can check on breathing. At 3 months you are totally fine to nap baby somewhere else

Sounds like tou have to hold him so much I'm not suprised there is jealousy. Have you got a rocker chair with dangly things baby can play next to you in while you play with toddler. I assume so ling as you are occupying toddler and nit holding baby you can make sure nothing is thrown.

We had a small age gap and winter baby. Walked every day, made toddler walk, he loved it. Also playground. They need to get out. Good luck

Not much to add to what others have said other than try following biglittlefeelings on Instagram, I bought their course and it’s massively helped with my toddler and baby adjusting. Now my youngest is 6 months and they are starting to show so much love for each other, at first it was really rough and I felt guilty for effectively ruining my eldest’s life. Now they’re bathing together and my big boy runs in asking for his brother when he gets home from nursery.

I would invest in a play pen to put the baby in to nap, get a net/cover so toys can’t be launched in.

I would also leave baby in another room to nap with a monitor (I did this), 17 months is still a baby, he must be feeling really out out by his new brother, I’m sure things will improve as his understanding improves, at the moment he’s confused as to why mummy now has another baby that she’s fussing over.

Just a comment about the laugh. My child does that with misbehaviour and yes it makes me see red sometimes but it's quite likely a stress reaction from you reacting to the slap, not any malicious pleasure. Like a nervous laugh or an innate appempt to defuse. But I feel for

Firm boundaries.a loud No every time hurts baby and remove from situation

Get an angel and video monitor and put baby upstairs for sleeps

Ideally get both to sleep at same time in afternoon. It is possible. I was a nanny for a 13mth and new born so roughly same age gap as yours

Playpen? Have toddler in it playing so baby can sit in bouncer a distance away

It is hard , it will get better and easier but you have to make sure your baby isn’t hurt by toddler

Get a monito so you can leave the baby upstairs to nap. Get a small space saver cot for baby for downstairs to put him in to be safe from toddler but still able to see you. Try and focus on toddler completely, not referring but actually playing with toddler. Try to get toddler to help with baby eg bringing you wipes.

Just wanted to say you're doing great OP and it won't always be this hard

*monitor
*Refereeing
🤦‍♀️

You can't leave 2yr. old alone in bath - he may drown. Use a play pen (in lieu of the naughty step). He gets punished by being put in play pen if he hits baby. It must stop. Don't interact with him when in play pen as he being punished by you withdrawing from him..

@Offmyfence

That's shite

If that's meant for me, then it's a very rude and nasty comment. I have brought up two daughters, both successful, well adjusted women in their forties, so I think I know a little more about child upbringing than someone who can't offer any constructive contribution of their own, but resorts to childish insults. Honestly, it's people like you that make I very hesitant about posting on here. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you have a room divider can you use that to stop the older one being able to touch the pram, and use the fly net (if it came with one) to stop any toys being able to be thrown into the pram? At least then if the younger is asleep they can hopefully stay asleep rather than being pelted with random stuff.

You could set the older up with paints or whatever on one side of the divider, and have the younger on the other side with access to the rest of the house so you can wheel around in a bit more space to get them off to sleep - even if it's just back and forth through the doorway so you can keep an eye on what's actually being painted!

Huge sympathy, it must be a complete nightmare.

Could you do scandi style naps for the baby in the pram in the garden? Leaving a monitor with him? Clutching a bit at straws for you here. Sounds super tough

I’d be putting any to sleep somewhere quiet with monitor on, I’m not with my 4 month old every minute of the day. Keep telling toddler it’s tgeir baby and showing nice ways to behave, holding babies hand. Read books to both cuddled together...you can never read too many books! Playpen? It sounds tough I had a larger age gap 2.5 years so not sure of advice! Agree that slings are not all that great well for me they weren’t!

That Sarah Ockwell Smith article posted up thread is great.
Massive sympathy OP, that all sounds really challenging. Your toddler is still a baby really, this must all be so confusing for him.

I have a 2 month old and a 2.5 year old, the toddler has been going through similar behavioural issues, mainly tantrums and aggression directed towards me though rather than the baby. I find that the more one on one time I spend with her the better she behaves. Initially DH was doing her bedtime but I now make a point to do it every night, feed the baby then hand him over and make sure to spend a good hour focused on her getting ready for bed, reading books and having a cuddle before she goes to sleep.

I think the bad behaviour is all designed to get your attention really, so I also try to give lots of praise and attention when she does positive things no matter how small, like if she’s gentle with the baby or if she does something I ask, and then don’t give much attention to the naughty things e.g. if she hits me I don’t react in a big way, just move her away and calmly say ‘I won’t let you hit’. I think if they get a big reaction to the hitting, even if it’s a negative one, they thrive off that and will keep doing it.

I used to go with the anything that's thrown gets removed and not returned immediately route he had less toys but I had way less bruises

My mum’s golden advice for dealing with this situation is, give full priority and attention to the toddler.

The baby will be fine, he doesn’t need constant interaction. He does need some but as long as he’s fed, clean, warm and cuddled regularly, he won’t know the difference.

The toddler probably just doesn’t understand ‘why mummy isn’t spending time with me anymore’. Which you do of course, but he’s just little.

Full attention on the toddler, and when you do need to care for the baby and spend some more time with him, then get toddler to help and be useful. He has a special job nobody else does as well, he’s the only one who can help mummy with XYZ for baby, wow how great was that? Mummy couldn’t have done it without you.

Hugs OP It will get better! You’re already doing amazing so hats off to you!