To think this is pretty fucking awful?

[WWYD2020]

We have to stay in, waiting for test results and feel really quite ill so going out was not an option.

Our toddler has full force slapped the baby in the head with both hands 4 fucking times today, just so incredibly fast that I can’t stop him sometimes. I can’t put the baby down anywhere whilst he’s awake because 1) toddler will maul him and 2) he will usually just cry, he loves to look at us and interact, the baby hates the sling don’t even mention that .

So here I am not able to put the baby down whilst he’s awake toddler getting jealous because I can’t put the baby down even though he’s part of the reason and if the baby manages to fall asleep in the pram carry cot he just gets toys thrown at him/pram shaken/jumped on by his big brother. By the end of the day I was settling the baby on our bed and he cried every time he saw his brother coming, it was heart breaking.

What the hell are you meant to do?
Can’t put baby down (cry or get hurt). Can’t hold him (toddler jealous). Can’t put him to sleep elsewhere in day as he’s not over 6m yet so has to stay with us. Can’t put him to sleep in pram(again, brother wakes him up, usually with violence). Can’t put pram in another room because our toddler will open the doors and get to him.

Why is he in pure attack mode?
He’s cutting 4 incisors atm, so definitely more whiney than usual but we’ve been giving nurofen when he looks like he’s in pain. Didn’t make a difference today.

Honesty practical help, or advice plz what do you do?
This is awful, no?

@PinkPomeranian

I would have naps in a separate room and use a video monitor. The risk of injury by your toddler seems greater than the risk of being monitored from a nearby room.

I was going to say the same. I had a two year age gap and quickly learned that it was impossible for DS2 to sleep with DS1 in the room.

Our house at the time was quite small, so I could put DS2 to sleep in his cot in our bedroom, leave the door open a bit, video monitor on and still hear him in DS1 room.

Try a little psychology. Get your toddler to 'help' as much as possible with the baby, and when someone else is present, say (in a quiet way, as if the toddler isn't meant to hear), '"Oh, we're so lucky that (toddler"s name) is such a help with the baby."
Your toddler will definitely hear, and after a few repetitions in the same style, he should get the idea that he really is helpful / kind / gentle with baby and start acting accordingly. Good luck.

That's shite

Could you have the toddler at nursery some of the week OP?

I really feel for you. I've got 16 months between my two and my eldest tried to scratch and hurt the baby a lot, it was awful! I did a lot of research about it at the time as I was desperate to find a way to stop him from doing it. What really helped me was trying to understand things from his perspective. I read a great article from Sarah Ockwell-Smith where she compares having a new sibling to your husband bringing a new woman home and expecting you to like her and share all your stuff with her. Here's the link:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/why-children-misbehave-when-a-new-baby-arrives_b_10531422/

I would try and spend as much one on one time with your eldest as you can. When your husband gets home from work take the toddler and have some special time where you play what he chooses and hopefully that will cure some of the jealousy he's feeling.

Tell him to use "kind hands" and try and keep within arms length of them as much as you can (I know this isn't always possible). If he throws a toy take it off him and put it away for the day. Good luck I know it's not easy!

My second napped in a separate room, and most people I know did with their second. Yes it's not following the guidelines perfectly but all you can do is reasonably your best, and if that's seperate rooms, that's ok.

Kona I can’t ask him because he hasn’t got many words.. well he has but none of the ones he can say have the capacity to explain to me what’s wrong yet. Sometimes he takes his hand and kisses it, we showed him how to be gentle and gives kisses. He puts the baby’s dummy back in and pulls the blanket over him. He does lots of lovely things, interspersed with smacking/slapping.

@Buffyfan26

Could you have the toddler at nursery some of the week OP?

We did this too. DS1 went to a childminder a couple of days a week. It was a godsend.

We have the same age gap OP and it is hard. Toddler is still a baby and doesn't understand and I really try not to get angry at him, he doesn't realise poking his little bro in the eye or clambering over him is wrong. I do get it's horrible when the baby cries out from being hit.

He has started getting better though.

I lie baby on his play mat or just on the floor, sit with toddler and show him to stroke the baby and we do it together. He's a lot more interested now in a good way since the youngest has started cooing and giggling. I

For naps and most awake time I keep the baby in a sleepy head on the sofa with me whilst toddler runs riot on the floor with his toys. Baby doesn't seem to care and can see me if I'm on the sofa or playing with toddler in the same room.

I would put baby asleep upstairs & spend time with toddler. However toddler should need a nap too?

Get toddler out of the house as much as possible.

Firm no is ok at that age.

Can DH take baby sometimes and you can take toddler to do something together? They sound jealous.

God it's hell, there were 20 months between my first two and honestly, the whole thing is a blur now, it was grim. To be fair, no violence or anything but you have a smaller gap and your eldest is still a baby. My youngest is just over two and she's still a baby to me!

The good news is, you can sort of ignore a 3 month old. Not in a neglectful way obviously, but bunged on a baby gym or playmat a lot of babies are quite happy for a bit. Then you can properly love bomb your eldest, lots of positive attention etc, he's lashing out because he's desperate for your attention and think is he can only get it by doing something to the baby. He's too young to understand that the baby will be fun for him too eventually.

My eldest two are best friends now, it really turned a corner when the youngest was able to walk and even more so when he talked. Hang in there!

I have 18 months between my two so feel your pain. I found that getting my elder son who was just 18 months a doll helped. Whenever I looked after the younger one, he did the same with the baby (such as feeding it, carrying it etc). It might help? Discussing how precious the doll is and how you can't hurt it. A play pen may also help- do you have a travel cot? They're quite good for babies as they're higher so the elder one might not be able to throw things into the cot as easily. Sounds like a really tough situation for you though. Another thing I used to do was to set up an activity space for the elder one (cloud dough and trucks or a tray full of Cheerios and diggers) it kept him entertained so he was distracted and didn't both with the baby. Winter is a hard time though as you're stuck in doors more. It will change quickly and as they get older they will become friends.

I read a great article from Sarah Ockwell-Smith where she compares having a new sibling to your husband bringing a new woman home and expecting you to like her and share all your stuff with her

Heck that’s horrendous. I will read in a little while.

Thank you all I’m reading through the suggestions! Lots of them ❤️❤️ Knew you’d come through and help.

This might sound weird, op, but you can buy doggy playpens which don’t look much different to baby playpens, as far as I can see, except they have a mesh ‘roof’ which would stop anything lobbed by your toddler landing on the baby. Ideal, if you’d rather keep the baby nearby. Am prepared to be told there are drawbacks, but can’t think of any myself!

I'm not sure putting the toddler in nursery is going to help with the jealousy! Sorry you are having a hard time OP - are there any local Sure Starts that can provide a home help? Or do you have friends or family that can help out sometimes during the day - take toddler or baby out for a walk?

www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Shoes-One-Sock-Hairbrush/dp/0304354295?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

This book is really good for having a new baby and a toddler - certainly makes you realise you are not alone and this will pass!

I'm so glad you have got such good advice. 17 months is young I still call my 17 month old a baby even though I know they are a toddler! I am so obsessed with safe sleep and I agree in these circumstances own cot is better! You could always get one of those breathing mats. Good luck for tomorrow. Today is finished. You survived! Everyone did. Well done! That's all you need to do until you get to an easier stage.

I had a similar age gap. Go for a walk with baby in pram and toddler on a buggy board. Baby gets a chance to sleep, toddler should love riding on the buggy board and you get a break from having to watch them constantly. That’s the first thing I would try.

OP just sending you so much sympathy, it really is tough. We only have the one toddler but had a similar aged relative to stay and, oh my! So here’s some more

Something friends have used with great success is a “no” box for the toddler - just any box with eg a remote control (minus batteries), an old mobile phone, keys and any other safe bits and bobs the toddler isn’t usually allowed to touch or would find curious. This can buy time.

About smacking the baby, really no advice and again so much sympathy. Are you doing a big outraged reaction when the toddler does this? Would a firm but less “exciting” reaction be worth trying? There was a child in our LO’s nursery who did a lot of slapping and the teachers advised that parents/adults around them just say “no”, look disappointed and move on/go elsewhere so there isn’t negative attention that the toddler can sort of chalk up as a win.

All that said, it’s tough and hats off to you. You’re doing great to have held on to your sense of humour, too.

I had this with my two - very close together and my DS was big and strong. We used a combination of a play pen (for baby) and sling. And I never left them on their own together until he was old enough to understand. Eyes everywhere. No they are inseparable. Good luck

We do have lots of outside help, we’re lucky in that respect with MIL going above and beyond having both sometimes. I didn’t mean to sound ‘my life is crap’ but more ‘how can I stop my first baby hurting my second baby’ 😭.

That article touched a nerve, it’s so true. Ann you, just sent it to DH too

Yes. This needs to be stopped ASAP.
Very firm. NO DONT YOU GO NEET HIM PLEASE!! This is a time when you need to be so so firm and direct. There is no way of getting out of it and consequences for every time he does go out of those boundaries.

Don’t be shy. I’m not saying smack him. I don’t agree with smacking at all. But firm consequences. Children react really really well to very strict and firm boundaries. Keep them exactly the same. Don’t chop and change. That’s when children get very confused. M
You’ve got this.

The teething combined with new(ish) sibling is making your toddler lash out. Plus you’re unwell and all cooped up indoors.
Inappropriate I know but my first thought was where’s a dog crate when you need it.
I can remember mine ( 17 months between them) going through the throwing/ hitting/ hair pulling stage but they were a bit older than yours. I decided divide and conquer was the only way, younger in a playpen, older in another room with a baby gate, me going between the two. And they both went down for a nap at the same time so I could put my feet up while they were sleeping.

My toddler bit my baby on the head. I remember my main priority was getting them both down for a nap at the same time. Do t remember much else!

Yes I remember a friend whose youngest were about 18 months apart being in your situation. She used the baby-sleeps-in-playpen solution for quite a while, probably with a cover on it too.

Hope you have a good weekend and can rest and store up some extra patience for the coming week so you can implement some of the suggestions here successfully. Good luck!