Confused by the ‘great fathers’

[Electricbug321]

AIBU to be confused and frustrated that describe their DP as a great/brilliant/fantastic father in their OP, but then describe behaviour that is anything but good parenting. At best the men in those posts are only doing the fun stuff or are ‘hands on’ but only around for a few minutes a day.

Is the bar really so low for men?

@Nayday

I also see many posts on here where the man's Big Job is actually probably not that important, what I would consider a fairly standard level of seniority - but justifies their absence from the home or inability to do things.

I've mentioned this before but I've worked in corporate environments in or alongside 'big jobs' and I'd say at least two thirds of the men who are "working late' are actively avoiding bed and bath time. And sniggering about it.

At a festival one time and a woman came up to us and told DH what a good dad he was because she’d watched him all weekend running after DS and had him on his shoulders etc. I definitely did at least half the parenting that weekend but it wasn’t ever acknowledged by a stranger

I agree there's often a very low bar - and posters often say they're a good father for something positive to say. Often when it's clear they're a shit partner/husband.

It is societal expectations though- my own mother thinks H is amazing because he sometimes irons. I work longer hours, earn more money, do everything for DS, all the finances/admin and yet he's amazing for ironing occasionally!!

He just doesn't have to think about what DS needs. Last week he came home and mentioned that DS wasn't in his room and did I know where he was (he's a teenager). DS had quite an important audition which H had been told about but had forgotten. Since I'd had to drop him there and pick him up it was less easy for me to forget .

Clymene I sometimes "work late" to avoid bedtime. I fucking hate bedtime.

@Clymene same here. It makes me very intolerant of the Big Job excuse.

I've seen other mum's berate posters who ask if they're U for wanting more partner help but are always working. One was even WFH but could not possibly be disturbed until 8pm. He was far too important (although not really actually remunerated or recognised for it - the importance didn't extend to any actual meaning).

It's The Great Big Job Myth.

This is making me wonder how many of us could talk up our jobs into Big Jobs if we wanted to. I definitely could but that’s not something it would occur to me to do because I actually want to split the load with my partner, not wriggle out of it.

Agree with the PP and esp the “tavern in Hades” line, stealing that.

I think many posters here write “great dad” and mean “the kids love him” - which if they’re little they probably do, regardless of how little he does for them/how rarely he’s around/how short his temper is. That’s just kids being kids and - sadly - means they’re just absorbing that this is acceptable behaviour.

@HaaaaaveyoumetTed

Clymene I sometimes "work late" to avoid bedtime. I fucking hate bedtime.

Also guilty (although as a single mum it's just putting off the inevitable). But if there was someone else who could do it, I'd definitely invent a deadline

I also see many posts on here where the man's Big Job is actually probably not that important, what I would consider a fairly standard level of seniority

Absolutely. So many posts about how DH can't possibly do anything with kids, because of Big Job - while his female colleagues doing the same Big Job somehow manage to.

The absurdity of how little society expects of dads, and how much it expects of mums, becomes so apparent when you flip the gender roles. Check out The Man Who Has It All on Facebook or instagram.

I’m sure quotes on there like “My wife does her own ironing, and takes the kids to the park on Saturday morning so I can clean the kitchen - I’m so lucky” come verbatim from mumsnet, just with the genders switched.

I blame maternity leave (or lack of access to shared leave) and the habits it sets u. Women are expected to love being at home for 6months+ and in that time all the domestic jobs end up being for the mother to do. Then they go back to work but maybe part time, and carry on doing most of the work at home.
Obvs glad for maternity leave but it does immediately set up the expectation that mothers are the 'natural' carers and would rather be at home

I agree about some fathers actively avoiding some of the grunt work of child rearing and who say they have to work late or early or whatever. One of DH's friends is perfectly open that he goes to work at 7 am so he does not have to do the morning nursery routine and returns after 7 pm for the same reason.

what fucks me off about that is his wife is in a high powered City job, he earns less than half her salary and she is absolutely run ragged. He also says that she wanted children and he didn';t so it's up to her to sort it. No home assistance that I am aware of.

He's an arsehole in so many ways, but I like to think he is more unusual than on the normal side of things.

@Nayday

YANBU

Men are frequently able to opt out of basic levels of functioning, cooking, looking after children whilst still being lauded as great father's.

Someone I know has a husband who is seemingly unable to buy Christmas and Birthday gifts for his family, or write cards etc. She tells me this with a laugh - and sorts it all out for him. Said husband is mid level senior, perfectly capable of scheduling meetings, holding down a job etc - but no, can't manage that. I have a similar role and manage mine perfectly fine, and don't handle my husband's gift buying. It's the "ha ha - they can't do it" that irritates me.

Do you not think by now, that some men do not feel that the hallmark days such as Xmas and birthdays are important. I'm like this, all celebrations for these special days should be limited to children's ages. Adults becoming excited by Xmas and birthdays is a little bit twee and a tad cringe tbh.

The most depressing threads are the ones titled “I just want to say what an amazing DP I have” and then it’s about how she’s 7 months pregnant and he cooked spaghetti bolognese, ran her a bath and out the kids to bed. So what women do every day and get told they’re not doing it well enough. Then you get handmaidens saying “Aw you’ve got a keeper” and the first person to point out this is t ‘amazing’ gets made out to be a jealous hag by OP and the handmaidens. As a PP said, some people really don’t want to admit they’ve got a shit man.

@forinborin

I actually think it is entrenched in the society.

Dads get praised for doing most basic things with the children when out and about. My eyes roll so hard when people start cooing over a misbehaving child in a supermarket - if s/he is with Dad. A mother would be just given stern glances in such situation.

My ex gets praises on social media from all relatives and friends when he posts "our day out with the children" photos - never mind that he actually bothers to see them every couple of months or so for a few hours only. Just today, posted a nativity video, it was the first time he bothered to see them since the half-term - and people who know this are all "ahhh, how lucky they are to have such a great Dad!"

Our local spotted page had a post from a man saying he has his kids every weekend but he wants a night out and his ex is saying no.

HUNDREDS of posts saying what a good dad he is (what because h hasn’t abandoned his kids?) how the ex is lucky and what a cow she is for not letting him go out.

I posted saying imagine if the genders were reversed and a woman who only saw her kids on a weekend wanted to skip a weekend to go out on the piss. She would be crucified! I got called a stupid bitch by about 20 people and a ‘man hater’ which is funny because people think this is the worst insult a woman could be given

[quote ChristmasRobins]@WorraLiberty Yes, that does sound bad but that's not what I said. As I say, I may be taking posts on here too literally but I don't think being a good dad or mum means you have to be brilliant at every single aspect of domestic life. PP mentioning someone being described as "a good dad but he could burn water" as a negative example made me feel really sad. Few of us are cordon bleu cooks living in show homes. On the other hand, emotional connection with one's children is a vital part of parenting and, contrary to what PP suggest, not something every mother achieves with ease. You only need to read the Stately Homes threads to appreciate that.

I seem to be interpreting the OP differently from how others have interpreted it so, as I say, I may be being overly literal.[/quote]
FGS it’s easy to boil or bake veg, why are people making out like it’s such a tough life to feed children healthy food

@WorraLiberty

I can actually only think of one male housemate who couldn't cook. The reason he couldn't cook is because he always had someone who would do it for him.

Exactly @RedWingBoots

All these men who can drive cars, operate machinery, sort out tech, use power tools, hold down a full time job.

But they magically simply 'can't' cook 🙄

Yep! Or change a nappy. Or have a poo in less than 45 minutes. They’re happy to play dumb when it suits

Also feel bad for all these women who say “But I can’t cook either” and think that means they don’t have a useless OH because he refuses to cook more than cheese on toast

PP mentioning someone being described as "a good dad but he could burn water" as a negative example made me feel really sad. Few of us are cordon bleu cooks living in show homes.

Fgs. Of course being incapable of cooking basic nutritious meals for your child is a 'negative example'. Humans have been able to do this since they had to go and catch their dinner themselves. So you'd think that with an internet full of step-by-step recipes, cooking videos, supermarket deliveries etc it shouldn't be too hard. Buy ingredients. Follow simple recipe.

'Could burn water' isn't a description of someone who's 'not a cordon bleu cook living in a show home'.

@Hrpuffnstuff1 considering your wife ‘fiercely defends’ her belief that a woman’s place is in the home I’m amazed she works so much and allows you to do the stuff she believes is her job

Adults becoming excited by Xmas and birthdays is a little bit twee and a tad cringe tbh.

I find this viewpoint from a man SO telling. It’s silly that people women want to feel special for a day, to have something nice for themselves. Probably because they’ve spent a lot of years centring other people, including men. It VERY much smacks of women should only ever serve men and children, but wanting some celebration of themselves is just hilarious

Do you not think by now, that some men do not feel that the hallmark days such as Xmas and birthdays are important.

It's very clear from many MN threads that a lot of men quite like a fuss on 'hallmark' occasions, as long as the fuss is made for them rather than for anyone else, or as long as it doesn't require any effort on their part.

there are many things I personally don't care about. But I do them because other people that I care about, care about those things. Must be quite liberating if this is not a consideration.

@crazyjinglist

Do you not think by now, that some men do not feel that the hallmark days such as Xmas and birthdays are important.

It's very clear from many MN threads that a lot of men quite like a fuss on 'hallmark' occasions, as long as the fuss is made for them rather than for anyone else, or as long as it doesn't require any effort on their part.

They also I imagine would be pretty mad if the fuss for the ‘hallmark’ days for their children wasn’t made. So if mum did t buy presents, wrap them, sort party, cake etc. in other words, do as little as they do

Just seen this utterly depressing comment on another thread:

I'm having a baby with my partner and everything is 50/50...he has been very clear he will not support me financially. If I want to continue the lifestyle I enjoy then that's on me to contribute my share. I'd love to have a rich, generous partner but sadly they're quite few and far between

Jesus how depressing - when pointed out that he’s probably a twat she replies that “I was single for 7 years this is the first man I e held on to” we need to start telling women that being single is better than being with a piece of shit man like this poor woman. Who will no doubt have a baby who has a shit right inconsiderate father

Oh that is dreadful @LlamaParma