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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

486 replies

ohganggang · 16/12/2021 21:35

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

OP posts:
PinkTonic · 16/12/2021 22:15

@ohganggang

I think inside he is still that little boy who watched his classmates talking about Christmas with complete and utter terror thinking they were going to be murdered by God for it any day.

He won't get it dealt with.

How did you envisage you’d deal with this when you made the decision to have children?
BHX3000 · 16/12/2021 22:16

I’m as Christian and a church-goer as they get, and I don’t celebrate anything religious at Christmas. Sure, the lyrics in most carols are religious, but Jesus wasn’t born at Christmas and my rational mind knows that. The holiday and the religious reason why it became a holiday, are completely unrelated.

Tell him that.

ohganggang · 16/12/2021 22:16

@PlasticPlantsDontDie I have wondered this myself but he vehemently denies still believing any of it even on a subconscious level. I have seeked support in ex-JW online communities for myself to get advice on supporting him and they all stated even though they no longer believe sometimes they think "But what if?" and I believe DH is the same even if he denies it.

OP posts:
RavingAnnie · 16/12/2021 22:16

Christmas isn't necessarily religious. We are atheist and love Christmas. It's about family and friends and having a celebration. The traditions of Christmas come from all sorts of influences - the Christians essentially stole the mid winter festival. Your husband needs to go to therapy and stop inflicting his issues on his children (and I say that as someone with a LOT of mental health issues and trauma - I get it but not fair to inflict it on your children).

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 16/12/2021 22:17

I had horrific Christmases as a child.
Alcoholic family member falling and knocking themselves unconscious.
My parents screaming at each other.

It brings me an unbelievable amount of joy that I know my children get to have the Christmases I always wanted to have.

I thought that’s the whole point of being a parent.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 16/12/2021 22:17

Our kids school talks to them about religion. When they ask about it we say that some people believe in god and celebrate jesus birthday but we don't believe so we like to celebrate all being together as a family and on holiday. It doesnt have to be religious.

I get he doesn't want religion to come into it and I think thats fair enough. And I understand some people being uncomfortable with the concept of santa. However if you want to give your kids some presents, enjoy the holidays, have a nice meal with your family he has no right to veto any of that unless your family are religious and are going to foist it upon your children.

My children like decorating the tree because its pretty. They like eating chocolate for breakfast for a treat. Religion doesn't have to come into it at all.

DSGR · 16/12/2021 22:17

I wouldn’t tolerate this either.
It doesn’t have to be religious… it’s about JOY.

Give your children a brilliant Christmas, let them have that wonderful joy.

Tell him to go to counselling or else. And tell him you’re doing Christmas whether he’s into it or not. Let him book a hotel

gogohm · 16/12/2021 22:17

Did you not discuss this prior to marriage? It seems like rather a large line in the sand he's drawn, no Christmas at all.

You need to have a serious talk and work out if you can get past this. He sounds like he needs counselling

RAOK · 16/12/2021 22:17

Do Christmas for your children. Insist your husband engages with counselling.

RJnomore1 · 16/12/2021 22:18

I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness.

It’s not about christmas this argument you are going to need to hsve; it’s more than that. The reason JWs don’t celebrate Christmas really is because they’re a high control group and it’s a way of making them different and othering normal things. There are many aspects of the belief like that.

I have as an adult no friends from before I was 21 and left. I have very few shared reference points from childhood with anyone. Please don’t allow him to do the same to your children. I’m atheist and my husband is not in the least religious but my kids have grown up with those shared experiences and reference points with their peers that in my observation anchor you to reality and give a feeling of belonging.

Your husband needs help. People do not realise the severe psychological and emotional damage that the cult does, because that is exactly what it is.

BurbageBrook · 16/12/2021 22:18

No way would I tolerate that. How dare he think he can dictate what the whole family does? Bullshit. Your poor daughter not having the presents and fun. If anything your husband is clearly still a closet JW.

DismantledKing · 16/12/2021 22:18

[quote ohganggang]@PlasticPlantsDontDie I have wondered this myself but he vehemently denies still believing any of it even on a subconscious level. I have seeked support in ex-JW online communities for myself to get advice on supporting him and they all stated even though they no longer believe sometimes they think "But what if?" and I believe DH is the same even if he denies it.[/quote]
Try supporting your children instead of your self-obsessed husband?

coodawoodashooda · 16/12/2021 22:18

@DismantledKing

I’m sorry, but he sounds like an absolute wanker.

"I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?”

How dare he take out his issues on his children.

That is horrible.
ohganggang · 16/12/2021 22:18

He's gotten, much, much worse with it since having children though admittedly was always anti-Christmas. I have Muslim friends with kids who don't do Christmas and I always assumed it wouldn't be that much of a problem and yes now my opinion is changing. I admit that.

OP posts:
BurbageBrook · 16/12/2021 22:19

Excellent post from @RJnomore1

recycledcat · 16/12/2021 22:19

Know some JWs and this is not their take on it at all - it's an extremely bizarre attitude. He has had an abusive childhood - full stop. He needs help, but you and your DC do not have to put up with this at all. Why are you being so compliant to his needs and desires and not your own or your DCs?

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 16/12/2021 22:19

Also if he wont celebrate xmas, could you have a different family tradition and celebrate in a similar way with presents etc on new years eve? No religious connotations but still an 'event'?

CiaoEB · 16/12/2021 22:20

He’s being totally unreasonable and selfish. Plenty of people had horrific childhoods and Christmas brings back awful memories. Being able to make sure your children never go through what you did, and that they experience the joy and fun of a normal childhood is a fantastic way to heal that. He needs to stop thinking about himself and sort out his trauma with a therapist not take it out on his children.

BurbageBrook · 16/12/2021 22:20

Well your opinion is allowed to change, and he will just have to deal with the compromise of presents and a day at your mum’s… or has be internalised the JW view that daddy is the head of the household?

PermanentTemporary · 16/12/2021 22:22

You do know that you can say stuff too?

'I don't want the kids exposed to that religious bullshit'
'Well, I don't want the kids stopped from taking part in normal fun bits of life like Christmas. And I'm not going to stop them any more.'

worriedatthemoment · 16/12/2021 22:23

Seems strange as he will turn christmas into the same as it was for him
As for school if you don't want your children doing Christmas things you need to tell them
The vast majority of this country do christmas even many religions other than christianity to christmas
I went to school with some JW they never made much fuss just left certain lessons etc

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 16/12/2021 22:23

I think that you have offered a very fair compromise, in that you take the dc and celebrate at your parents. The fact that he won’t even allow that is alarming! I would put your foot down and go anyway - can you stay for a few days? Then in the new year you need to insist that he either accesses help to break the cycle, or you will seriously consider leaving. His trauma is tragic, but he has no right to inflict it on your children.

worriedatthemoment · 16/12/2021 22:24

Also what about what you want and believe?

Ancientmale · 16/12/2021 22:24

The Sumerians, pre Judaism let alone pre Christian, had a Winter Festival, I'm sure all cultures do as well as Spring (Easter) ones. You’re in a tough position, spend the day the day with your parents is the best option, leaving him at home if necessary.

MouseholeCat · 16/12/2021 22:25

I agree with the suggestions that he gets a hotel or something and lets you celebrate.

I think that he's not appropriately dealt with the substantial trauma that can result from being raised in fundamentalist faiths. There's a significant amount of deprogramming that people raised in these situations often need to go through to integrate into secular (or even mainstream religious) society because of how they shape behavior as well as beliefs. It sounds like your husband may have shaken his belief system but not some of the fundamentalist behaviors.

I hope that you can encourage him to get more help and find a way to allow your family to celebrate the holiday.

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