To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

[ohganggang]

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

Op can you ask him to do more research, on the origins of Xmas.
It annoys me when people think it's soley a religious festival.
It's so deep and broad and is a buffet of different things to different people. I adore the story of the nativity, it's so simply and beautiful ant relevant today.
I adore fc and the North Pole etc I like dickens and pagan elements of light and bringing a tree in to keep life and light going at the moment darker time of the hemisphere.

Your dh sounds very mired in looking at the world through religious glasses. Many Britons are not religious and they can still enjoy this wonderful festival that pre dates Christian hi Jack of the dates.

And yes he needs to get over himself now and think of his dc.

Generational trauma, yay!

He's jealous of his own kids. If he won't get help for his issues, leave him, please. Your children deserve so much better.

Yes take away the religious part of it. Celebrate 'Winter Solstice' instead. A lot of Christmas traditions aren't actually connected to Christianity. Giving and receiving presents, decorating your home, having a fancy meal of foods you don't normally eat - none of that is especially Christian. The 'magic' of taking your children to see the town centre full of bright lights and a decorated tree, eating a German hot dog and having a hot chocolate, even seeing some reindeer...none of that is religious. It's seasonal. It's winter - we brighten the darkness with lights and eat/drink cosy food.
It will be hard to have the children avoid some of the more traditional parts in school - nativity, carols etc but schools do tend to be more 'neutral' about these things because they know so many families don't celebrate Christmas as a religious festival. Talk to your husband about what parts of Christmas you want your children to experience and I expect most of it is unrelated to the actual Christmas Story.

This would be a deal-breaker for me I meant.

Btw I am completely aetheist.

It’s not just Christians who celebrate at Christmas ya know. Pretty much everyone I know, from every religion/atheist looks forward to getting together with their family during this time and eat/drink/be Merry etc.
He sounds like a right misery. Don’t begrudge your kids the chance to enjoy Christmas. Just make it your own version.

Does he realise he’s being a hypocritical bastard?! Fuck him. Give your kids a Christmas. He needs help and not to project his issues into his children

My friend is Muslim but they do a small Christmas present giving and definitely not a religious thing in her house. She lives in the UK and understands that her children attend a CofE primary and so of course the predominant religious topic is Christianity. They do cover lots of other religions and even read class books about different faiths.

Has he thought about counselling for his childhood? That way he can move forward hopefully and not subject his children to his misery over Christmas.

I agree with you all that Christmas doesn't necessarily have to be religious these days.

For all he goes on about how it's just because he wants the kids to be completely atheist, I think it's actually a case of subconsciously not being able to bear seeing them having Christmas and being happy when he didn't.

The religous trauma he has is massive, his mum was an extremely devout JW. During a bad weather event when he was 7 she thought it was Armageddon happening and made him pack all his bags to 'flee to safety' until God came and saved them and he believed it all at the time and was terrified, he has never forgotten it.

Like @Pinkflipflop85 I dont understand why you are considering making a complaint. You can discuss / request/ inform school once you have made a bloody decision.

The problem is not on school or society- its on you and your partner. Why did you not make a compromised decision before sending your kids out into the world? Its like complaining to school for giving your kids the meat option at lunch when you haven't quite decided if they are vegetarian.

Decide what you want but take responsibility. You both sound like there's too much ego.

Is he, in fact, The Grinch?

As others have said, it doesn’t need to be about religion if you’re not religious. It’s a mid-winter festival, if you prefer.

Preventing his children from experiencing the joy he wished he’d been able to have as a child is not the answer to his trauma. It’s passing it on. As a responsible parent and grown-up, he needs to address his own trauma to avoid inflicting it on his children.

He needs to think of them, not himself.

Christmas is a secular holiday in its own right, I say that as a practicing Christian.

Your husband is living proof of the poem "they fuck you up; your mum and Dad". I'd consider leaving if he won't try therapy.

I’m a militant atheist and love ‘christmas’ and all of its pagan roots: food, drink, evergreens and lights, family together celebrating in midwinter.

Your husband needs to get a grip (or therapy) as his children will hate him for this in years to come.

I would refer to him as The Grinch from now on in, and leave him to it as you go to your parents’ this year, and issue him with an ultimatum in good time for christmas 2022.

You knew his feelings before you married him and had kids.

Well he’s just being an arse. I had an abusive childhood and Christmas was always my worst time of year for many horrible reasons but I’ve gone the opposite way and want every single Christmas my dc have to be filled with love and joy. And it’s like reclaiming Christmas for me too. If you have dc you put them first and if he can’t do that then he doesn’t deserve them.

There's absolutely no way I'd let dh ruin Christmas for the dc, who the hell does he think he is, selfish doesn't begin to cover it.
Can you imagine dc going back to pre school and they're the only one that had no Christmas? All because.... why should they have Christmas when their df never when he was a child!!!!
And as for complaining to the school, give your head a wobble!

One day, years from now, your children will be typing on a forum about how they weren't allowed to join in with the other kids enjoying the festivies because their dad was projecting his childhood issues onto them and essentially did to his children what his parents did to him.

You have been sympathetic, you have listened and given up your own beliefs to make him happy but you have kids now and It isn't just about him. You can decorate the house and buy the kids presents. You can have a nice meal and celebrate it without making it about religion.

Tell him to get some counselling or suck it up for the sake of his kids because otherwise, he is no better than his parents.

As others have said, mostly Christmas celebrations are secular in this country (and it was originally a midwinter festival). Lots of Muslim families in our school put trees up.

@ohganggang

I agree with you all that Christmas doesn't necessarily have to be religious these days.

For all he goes on about how it's just because he wants the kids to be completely atheist, I think it's actually a case of subconsciously not being able to bear seeing them having Christmas and being happy when he didn't.

The religous trauma he has is massive, his mum was an extremely devout JW. During a bad weather event when he was 7 she thought it was Armageddon happening and made him pack all his bags to 'flee to safety' until God came and saved them and he believed it all at the time and was terrified, he has never forgotten it.

He might be traumatised, but he’s being a horrible cunt. I’m an atheist, but he’s a fucking embarrassment. How dare he.

You and the children do your thing and leave him to get over himself. Christmas is for children - not for sulky grown men.
I hope you and the children have a fabulous time! What do your parents think of his attitude?!

By avoiding it all he is reinforcing his dysfunction and passing on his trauma to all of you. He can seek treatment and support for leaving his abusive family and their religion, he needs therapy. It won't wear off on its own, especially if he controls family life like this as the years go by, he is preventing his recovery and hurting you all. Saying it will set him off so you all have to avoid it will make it worse, always. Do your own Christmas, don't let his abusive childhood ruin your own lovely family life.

LTB. Nothing else to say. L.T.B. Now.

And spoil your kids rotten.

I think it's actually a case of subconsciously not being able to bear seeing them having Christmas and being happy when he didn't.

In which case, he’s a fucking monster.

Christmas is definitely cultural and not religious.

Well he needs to seek therapeutic support to deal with his childhood trauma. Please don't continue it by denying your children Christmas.