To hate working with women

[HousethatChunkbuilt]

I am a feminist and I think women are incredible. I am proud at all we achieve, having babies, periods, going through the menopause, the constant harassment, fear of violence, discrimination, sexism... the list goes on.
HOWEVER I find it incredibly difficult to work in all female teams. I have nearly always worked in all female environments in entry level jobs.
The bitchiness is unreal. Everyday comments lead to tears, meltdowns, refusal to come in. This has happened in every single workplace. The only place I haven't had this is in a shop where it was mostly men and other (quite mature) women. Oh and one place where we were all different nationalities, is cattiness a British thing?
It just takes so much time and effort navigating the various rifts, arguments, feuds and rivalries. I honestly think we'd rule the world if we could get rid of this shit.
I'm quite matter of fact and get frustrated that this taking up so much time!

I am proud at all we achieve, having babies, periods, going through the menopause, the constant harassment, fear of violence, discrimination, sexism... the list goes on.

With having babies as possibly the only exception, none of those are things women achieve.

1. Never had this in 30 years working.

1. Have been all women team once in betting shop. And one org all women maybe 50 of us.

• Never experienced what you have OP.

• Some women of course are horrible in all sorts of ways...

Same as some MEN can be horrible in all sorts of ways. Type of horrible done often in different ways. But obv men can and do take against others, backstab, hold grudges and so on. Also can be cliquey. Prone to making big deal out of tiny tiny thing or imagined thing.

• Plus of course they can be sexist, bullying (women bully too generally in different ways), aggressive, arrogant, habit of putting women down etc.

Nevertheless I've got on pretty well in all jobs with most people.

And I think it's rather, dunno word! Childish maybe?
To assume that your experiences somehow extrapolate across millions (if UK, globally... Billions!).

Men are like this (great) and women are like that (horrible)!!!

OP just wondering if you have thoughts from a feminist perspective?

Eg
Why women can behave like this, what the drivers are. Where does this set of behaviours in women come from? It certainly does happen IME though individuals rather than most or all women.

....

I'm not sure what all the admin entry level stuff is about.
Could mean anything really.

I mean being more direct on what you are trying to say about the women rather than leaving us to take our own meanings from it

@MammaMacgill87

Also as a side note, if you ever needed proof of in fighting, bitchiness or backstabbing all you have to do is read to the end of these comments and witness it first hand. All women commenting all turning against one another, going off tangent and getting personal pretty much proving OPs point. Just a random observation

That’s got nothing to do with sex. There are very male dominated forums online where you’ll find extremely disturbing material and much nastiness, even up to encouragement of violent behaviours. Lots of Reddit boards are heavy on male posters and they love to jump on people for no reason.

Plus, of course people will be defensive. If you come on to a board where most posters are women and say ‘aren’t women bitchy and awful to work with’ that is going to inspire irritation and annoyance.

Although the op is pretty irrelevant since they also dislike men. So it’s not really women that’s the issue anyway.

Lolol at blokes on internet usually being really nice to each other!
Or indeed to women/girls.

Um...

@Mamanyt

I have worked for decades with mostly women, or all women. I've found that, quite often, there is one person who considers herself "very upfront and honest," but who is actually a jerk, who flavors the reactions of the entire group. Almost every group, no matter what the gender nakeup has this person. Who is it on the teams you have been working with?

Good point. I think it's a matter of luck sometimes. I worked on a team of about 15 women for 10 years, and for the most part we all worked well together. If there was an argument, we tended to have it out and be done. I don't think serious bullying or slagging each other off would have gone over well at all.

Where I work now, they start talking about someone as soon as they leave the room. They also use horrible language. I'm no prude but one should not have to hear the "f" bomb repeatedly all day.

It is actuality true though, that women and men both can behave this way.

I’ve worked in 5 very different jobs/ industries, one was all female the rest mixed. I’ve never experienced this even in the slightest degree at any of them! Is it the industry you work in?

I don’t have this issue at all where I work. There may be 1 or 2 that like a gossip but everyone is very mature and we are an amazing team. I’ve worked with men too and find men to be super bitchy. It’s actually shocking. Women are more tame

@hugr

Yeah not my experience either. Maybe it's you?

What a bitchy thing to say! That's exactly what the OP is referring to female bitchiness.

I personally have worked in male dominated industry, so not seem or experienced this though in local government, female bitchiness was fairly rife. Like the OP, you navigate around it, but some people are less resilient than others and get upset. My sister experienced this and was hounded out of a role in social services, so it does happen.

Personally OP I'd talk to yoyr manager and HR about it and see if there's an intervention that would be helpful.

This has happened to me before in a situation where there was a bad egg who spread gossip, manipulated situations, riled up the other women and turned them against each other. She came across as sweet and butter wouldn’t melt but I saw her stir trouble in all kinds of situations quite subtly. One day one girl punched another and got fired, but it was actually the bad one’s fault who was nowhere near the action simply because she had instigated the situation. It was quite incredible to see how one person affected an entire dynamic of a team. If she hadn’t been in the team, I think all the women would have got along fine.

What a bitchy thing to say! That's exactly what the OP is referring to female bitchiness.

Let's say you think it was rude to say that. Why attach female to it? A female doing something doesn't make the action 'female'.

Do you think men never point put that if you keep finding yourself in the same situation, that you may be contributing to it?

Op isn't trying to navigate round it. Op admits to also doing it and contributing to it.

So the statement is not wrong is it?

I’m fully on board with what you have said OP. My first job in this country was working with a top global IT co and my experience was ruined because of all women's team, they were quiet nasty. Fortunately I moved to a more mature mixed team in two years. And since never gone back to working in all women's team. and I’m a D&I champion at current workplace for women.

We had a couple of women in our team like that @Mummadeze. Fortunately our HOD had a good handle on their behaviour and it never escalated. One of the troublemakers handed her notice in and was told that she could leave once she had completed her handover so she ended up not having to complete her notice period. Basically the boss wanted to prevent her from spreading her poison around the office.

Then covid happened and some of our team were furloughed including the other troublemaker. She then got made redundant.

Our team now is brilliant and there is no bitchiness at all.

I would put money on the fact that men behave just as badly as women, but we let it slide because they are men, and most women have been socially indoctrinated from a very early age to defer to men.

Women in general are great, yes there’s some annoying ones, but that’s the same of any demographic. I have never been told to ‘cheer up’ by a random woman in the street, never been ‘helped’ to park by a random woman in the street, never been groped by a random woman, never been talked over in a meeting by a woman, never been told by a female co-worker that she masturbated over me the previous night.

Women should support and try to understand women, not use misogynistic words like ‘bitchy’ or ‘catty’, all you do is continue the male supremacy by doing this.

The same as @UltraVividLament said. Also I’ve think the OP has successfully displayed prejudice based on very little.

@risefromyourgrave

I would put money on the fact that men behave just as badly as women, but we let it slide because they are men, and most women have been socially indoctrinated from a very early age to defer to men.

Women in general are great, yes there’s some annoying ones, but that’s the same of any demographic. I have never been told to ‘cheer up’ by a random woman in the street, never been ‘helped’ to park by a random woman in the street, never been groped by a random woman, never been talked over in a meeting by a woman, never been told by a female co-worker that she masturbated over me the previous night.

Women should support and try to understand women, not use misogynistic words like ‘bitchy’ or ‘catty’, all you do is continue the male supremacy by doing this.

Well said. That's my experience too.

@Bertiebiscuit

Women at work are exactly like men at work - some nice and supportive, some really not - I really a object to the "women /girls are bitchy" trope, it is sexist and demeaning - men can also be mean and gossipy, women can be cool, calm and professional - I don't agree with you at all tbh

I think this is the heart of it. If a man is bitchy and backstabbing, which plenty are, it's his personal issue. If a woman is, it;s because 'women' are bitchy.

On two occasions, I have witnessed an alpha female set a very positive tone in a team by overruling the group dynamic of 'let's leave X out' or 'let;s not train Y properly so they flounder because they are a newbie'. I've seen the popular woman that all the men fancy reach out to the new people (self included) and invite them to lunch and show them the ropes. By doing this from a position of power, these women shifted the dynamic away from manipulative into a cohesive team. If you think about it, I'm sure most people on this thread saying women are hell to work with could find similar examples but they choose not to remember them because it doesn't fit their narrative.

@MammaMacgill87

Also as a side note, if you ever needed proof of in fighting, bitchiness or backstabbing all you have to do is read to the end of these comments and witness it first hand. All women commenting all turning against one another, going off tangent and getting personal pretty much proving OPs point. Just a random observation

Of course you never see a bunch of men on an internet forum doing this.

I work in what was a male dominated industry, seen lots more woman coming into the industry over the last 20 yrs, great stuff.
I have to agree though as the only problems I've ever experienced is with the women, petty jealousies, undermining, cattyness, backstabbing, spite, tears if they don't get their own way.
I know all women are not like this but this has definitely been my experience.
I'm currently going through it now, new starter on the opposite team, I'm helping to train her on the less technical side of the role as she's straight out of uni, no experience in the industry and she's kicking off as I'm not teaching her my role and she feels undermined. Sorry but I can't teach a graduate a technical role that I've trained for over 25 yrs and condense all my experience down into a couple of zoom calls.

I’m working in an all men environment and would prefer working in a balanced team, it’s not great either.

See, I’ve never met any really ‘bitchy’ women I’m 57. I’ve just gone through my life, and nope, no bitchy women.

O levels- lots of friends
A levels- less friends, but no ‘bitches’
Foundation course- lovely women
Degree ( female orientated) loads of fantastic young women. Lovely and supportive and funny
1st job-all men, horrible
2nd job. I think this may be where l met the only ‘nasty’ woman. The rest of the staff were great
3rd job-lovely women, made some great friends
4th job- again great friends
5th job “
6th job lots of amazing friendly women. Stayed for 26 years. Still miss my work family.

I think it’s about expectations.

@Jayaywhynot

I work in what was a male dominated industry, seen lots more woman coming into the industry over the last 20 yrs, great stuff. I have to agree though as the only problems I've ever experienced is with the women, petty jealousies, undermining, cattyness, backstabbing, spite, tears if they don't get their own way. I know all women are not like this but this has definitely been my experience. I'm currently going through it now, new starter on the opposite team, I'm helping to train her on the less technical side of the role as she's straight out of uni, no experience in the industry and she's kicking off as I'm not teaching her my role and she feels undermined. Sorry but I can't teach a graduate a technical role that I've trained for over 25 yrs and condense all my experience down into a couple of zoom calls.

Do you really believe men never have that attitude?

Op - I will say I have worked with several difficult and unpleasant women. It pains me to say that I've worked with more difficult women than men. However, my experience has been completely different to yours. These women were a small minority. I currently work in an all female team and it's been an absolute joy! We all get on brilliantly and support each other, socialise outside work etc. I've worked in other all females teams in the past and it was a similar experience. You seem to be saying that ALL your experiences of working with women have been awful. I find this bizarre and can only say you've been extremely unlucky. What industry do you work in to attract such awful women?

I’ve worked with a lot of women and I have had an issue with only a few