To hate working with women

[HousethatChunkbuilt]

I am a feminist and I think women are incredible. I am proud at all we achieve, having babies, periods, going through the menopause, the constant harassment, fear of violence, discrimination, sexism... the list goes on.
HOWEVER I find it incredibly difficult to work in all female teams. I have nearly always worked in all female environments in entry level jobs.
The bitchiness is unreal. Everyday comments lead to tears, meltdowns, refusal to come in. This has happened in every single workplace. The only place I haven't had this is in a shop where it was mostly men and other (quite mature) women. Oh and one place where we were all different nationalities, is cattiness a British thing?
It just takes so much time and effort navigating the various rifts, arguments, feuds and rivalries. I honestly think we'd rule the world if we could get rid of this shit.
I'm quite matter of fact and get frustrated that this taking up so much time!

The bitchiest gossipiest place i ever worked was a workshop of about 60 blokes.

Haven't read the whole thread but my experience is that certain all female workplaces can be incredibly bitchy. I worked in Greggs the Baker as a teenager and its honestly the most toxic environment I've ever come across. It all stem from the store manager and assistant manager both women in the mid-50s who hated each other, as a result of their constant bitching and sniping at each other it filter down to the rest of the staff.

I have found similar in some of the workplaces I have been.

I've always worked with teams that are mostly women (PR) and I don't experience this. Maybe we are all too busy?

I notice in one of your posts OP you point out that this happens in jobs where you feel a bit bored like call centres etc. Maybe it's that? People are a bit uninspired by the work so dwell on drama to keep them busy?

Though saying that, my sister is a nurse - so obviously very busy - and works mainly with women, and she says at least half of them (all ages) can be really catty and judgey.

Not really sure what my point is! Though it's not like men all sit together and hug and sing kumbaya at work so maybe it's just a work thing 😁

I've never experienced this in any workplace 🤷🏻‍♀️

A thread of women slagging off women.

My experience as a manager was that women make better workers but men are more reliable. A man will do 80% of what a woman can do, but he'll do that 80% day in, day out without complaining or becoming upset. Women can do more but are more prone to taking sick days, fall out with colleagues more often and complain more (both legitimate complaints and vexatious ones).

In essence, women can be better but take a lot of managing to get the best out of them. Men can just be left alone to get on with it.

This is my experience and I'm not saying it is scientific fact and applies to everyone in all workplaces!

@MorningStarling

My experience as a manager was that women make better workers but men are more reliable. A man will do 80% of what a woman can do, but he'll do that 80% day in, day out without complaining or becoming upset. Women can do more but are more prone to taking sick days, fall out with colleagues more often and complain more (both legitimate complaints and vexatious ones).

In essence, women can be better but take a lot of managing to get the best out of them. Men can just be left alone to get on with it.

This is my experience and I'm not saying it is scientific fact and applies to everyone in all workplaces!

Isn’t it at least as possible that your gendered assumptions mean you manage men and women differently, and do a considerably less good job with your female colleagues?

While both can be healthy or unhealthy, when it gets bad, in my experience, it can look somewhat different. Usually the badness is caused by a leadership failure, though sometimes it's due to one or more toxic personalities.

I agree with this. I’ve left jobs due to bad management. I’ve mainly worked in mixed, diverse working environments and had great male and female managers, however in my experience, the bad male managers were usually lazy and admitted that they were just there for the money while the female managers would get overwhelmed and take it out on the other employees, usually the female ones.

I currently work in an all female team and am leaving a job I enjoyed because I can’t deal with the ever changing mood of my manager and knowing if it’s bad, I’m going to be micromanaged, talked down to in front of customers (usually when I’m in the middle of talking to them, not sure who finds it more awkward ), having my performance nit-picked for petty reasons and getting mixed messages. The female manager before her was absolutely lovely and the team worked well. Once I go, it will only be her and the assistance manager that have been there longer than three months.

@Burritogame

Well I’ve worked in childcare and found some lovely environments and some not nice environments. Sometimes there can be a perfect storm of a certain mix of people and it just creates a bad atmosphere.

Same with retail, schools, home care. I’ve worked in all those and found some good environments and some bad. Not really dependent on sex. The worst environment I had was an evening job at a cinema. It was perfect in terms of childcare because kids were in bed and it started just after DH finished so we could swap over easily. However, it was just an awful environment, so cliquey and bitchy. Part of the issue (imo) is that there wasn’t enough work to do. At nurseries there wasn’t time to stand about bitching about so and so, everyone was busy. There, it was just constant standing around, except on a busy Saturday.

Can’t speak for corporate work but I’d imagine it’s much the same with many nice female times, many nice male teams, many nice mixed teams, and much of the opposite.

I’ve also found that the bitchiness tends not to affect you unless you join in. The most dramatic people I’ve known/the ones who complain about bad atmospheres etc, tend to be people who are right in the midst of it all the time. If you don’t join in and treat work as somewhere you do your job then you don’t become embroiled in any silliness.

That's exactly it, @Corbally.
Nail on the head.

#NotAllWomen

While not the workplace I coached at various sports clubs and I hate to say it but the women's teams seem to carry far more baggage insofar as various cliques constantly sniping and bitching at each other. While the men's teams will also have members who dislike each other they tend to be better at parking those differences at the door and getting on with it come practice or match time. Some of the women on the other hand see fit to email me demanding that certain people are dropped from the team sheet or refusing outright to cooperate with squad members they have a problem with. It's exhausting trying to keep a lid on it and for those folk who just want to get involved for the fitness and social life end up leaving as it's so fucking toxic.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

A thread of women slagging off women.

Profoundly depressing, isn't it. Years and years of challenging stereotypes and fighting for equality in the workplace - guess what, we're difficult bitches

Maybe you're more aware of the bitchiness between women. The worst bitches I encountered were all men. Really childish as in not letting one team leader join them for lunch and trying not to copy him in on group meetings because they didn't like him, and calling him names behind his back. This was in a team of highly experienced professionals.

You are not a feminist.

The problem is you. Not everyone else.

I worked in a very female area and it was awful. Bitchy, cliquey, bullying- everything communicated in whispers and back handed compliments. These were professionals btw.

When I left I went to a v male environment, really enjoyed it- everyone said what they thought, no politics.

Now I work in a mixed team, mostly from home - and again it’s great.

I think bad cultures can grow in any company, but in my experience is worse when there is no m/f balance

I’ve worked on beauty counters and department stores with mostly young women and found them generally great to work with.

I now work in an all male team and I honestly find men above the age of 30 a LOT more bitchy and catty than women.

For most of my life I've heard variations of this; women are bitchy, difficult, awkward, hysterical, unreliable at work.
So when women demonstrate behaviour that is less than wonderful they are dismissed in those terms.
By the way, I don't know what being British has to do with it?.

My current team is 6 women and 1 man, all American, all around age 50.

Lovely group. Could not be more supportive. Zero bitchiness.

Is it because they're women?

Is it because they're American?

Is it because they're all 50-ish?

Is it because there's one man in there to keep us all honest?

No... it's because this team is what this team is, regardless of gender and nationality and age.

I've recently changed career into a profession. Previous to this, working in the charity sector, I found female dominated teams that were bitchy, clicky and nasty. It got me down a lot.

Moving to a profession, I see the odd "toys out of pram" moment from women but generally a much nicer, friendlier environment.

So it could be in certain industries? I also think age plays a part- it was always worse with younger, less mature women.

@LifesTooShortForYourNonsense

I worked in a very female area and it was awful. Bitchy, cliquey, bullying- everything communicated in whispers and back handed compliments. These were professionals btw.

When I left I went to a v male environment, really enjoyed it- everyone said what they thought, no politics.

Now I work in a mixed team, mostly from home - and again it’s great.

I think bad cultures can grow in any company, but in my experience is worse when there is no m/f balance

So, in your opinion, women in the workplace need men to moderate and improve their behaviour?

I just hate people full stop lol I always walk away whenever people starting bitching, I left school and grew up a long time ago, yes it makes me an outcast, rather that than be part of childish shit

Agree. I used to have quite a small team of woman and it was usually fine. Now it’s about three times the size and as you say- one word inflected and misread leads to a barney
I do find if management let this run riot, it’s hard to fix I’ve worked places where I can’t believe how people talk to each other and wonder what on Earth got them all to that place.
Also, management quite often shirk responsibility as it’s normally some new procedure or work force cuts and everyone working harder and more pissed off that makes them start to snipe at each other.

Although DH had a male and female colleague having a screaming match the other day. Even though the female inserted herself into the argument: she was the one ,later wailing in the managers office. The male just left the premises.

And my DH and his 3 best friends in their social hobby, honestly fall out spectacularly about 3 times a year I tell them they’re worse than woman! But they do fall in quite quickly.

I worked in an office run by a complete cow who encouraged all the younger women under her to also be complete cows. It was her alone that enjoyed creating division & nastiness in her workforce and she preferred the younger staff to the older ones because they were easier for her to manipulate and tell tales. I wasn’t popular at all because I refused to join in the cliques.
That’s the only place I’ve been where I’ve not preferred working with 99% women. I wouldn’t swap my current colleagues at all, there’s a brilliant bond.