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To think the anti-lockdown brigade have been proved right?
393

Libertaire · 08/12/2021 19:34

We were told that if we all got vaccinated life would return to normal, and that process would be ‘cautious but irreversible’. So we complied. I am triple-jabbed and extremely grateful for the work of the brilliant scientists who made this possible.

Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown. The fear mongering is being ratcheted up day by day. If this was ever about public health, it cannot be now because everyone who is vulnerable to covid has been offered at least two doses of vaccine.

We surrendered our freedoms willingly, to protect ourselves and one another and because we believed that we would get them back. But that isn’t happening, is it? An authoritarian government has confiscated them permanently and we will never get them back until we take them back, which is what anti-lockdown campaigners said from the start. They have been proved right, haven’t they?

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Am I being unreasonable?

AIBU

You have one vote. All votes are anonymous.

MrsSkylerWhite · 08/12/2021 20:43

GoldenOmber

“If people would do it anyway, then there’d be no need to put in laws to make them, would there?”

Compliance has been extremely high throughout. If “ social unrest” we’re going to happen, it would have happened by now (ie more than a few hundred fruitcakes led by Piers Corbyn. That’s not social unrest, it’s failure of care in the community)

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x2boys · 08/12/2021 20:44

I think people hear what they want to hear ,they irreversible road map out of lockdown but they also said they couldn't rule out further restrictions if things , changed,things have ,changed we now have a new variant that us spreading quickly ,we don't know yet how that is going to impact hospital admission,s and or deaths ,so they have brought in some fairly mild restrictions so far ,however much people are fed up the virus doesn't seem to care ,people might not care now but IF things get drastically worse and no one knows yet ,then I think people will start complying ,most will anyway .

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megletthesecond · 08/12/2021 20:44

No. I think they were very naive thinking we'd be through this quickly. Maybe they didn't read much at the time.

Whereas as a pessimistic Johnson hater who is capable of understanding a bit of science I knew it was never going to be totally ok this winter.

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Darbs76 · 08/12/2021 20:44

It’s because of the unvaccinated we are facing these restrictions. So no, they are not right, they are very wrong

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x2boys · 08/12/2021 20:45

They said *

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Melabela10 · 08/12/2021 20:45

@Scautish

Disagree. Not enough people vaccinated. Too many twats who think they know better than scientists. So because of them we’re back in a fucking lockdown.

Also - it’s a fucking virus and it’s just doing what viruses do. It’s quite hard to build legislation around them (though this government have been spectacularly incompetent)

In the UK the vast majority of people (18+ adults) is vaccinted. the issue is that the preliminary data shows that vaccine gives little protection from cathing the virus howver this may still offer some sort of proptection from getting seriously ill.
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JaniieJones · 08/12/2021 20:45

'We’re not in a lockdown, stop being so dramatic. It’s no wonder people get crippled by anxiety.'

This.

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MarshaBradyo · 08/12/2021 20:45

@megletthesecond

No. I think they were very naive thinking we'd be through this quickly. Maybe they didn't read much at the time.

Whereas as a pessimistic Johnson hater who is capable of understanding a bit of science I knew it was never going to be totally ok this winter.

Maybe not totally ok but this is due to the new variant

I doubt we’d have these restrictions otherwise
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GoldenOmber · 08/12/2021 20:45

@MrsSkylerWhite

GoldenOmber

“If people would do it anyway, then there’d be no need to put in laws to make them, would there?”

Compliance has been extremely high throughout. If “ social unrest” we’re going to happen, it would have happened by now (ie more than a few hundred fruitcakes led by Piers Corbyn. That’s not social unrest, it’s failure of care in the community)

I'm not suggesting we're going to be overcome with riots. I'm saying that the people who said "the only thing that will end this will be social unrest", rather than say at any particular goal being reached, may have had a point.
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user53782991 · 08/12/2021 20:46

The pandemic continues and it’s only been roughly two years, not everyone has access to the vaccines across the world, antivaxxers pushing their agenda, people haven’t complied as best as they could have (e.g., Downing Street Christmas party), so calm down, what did you expect at this point? We are not in a lockdown and UK isn’t closed off to the rest of the world.

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Chasingaftermidnight · 08/12/2021 20:46

Like Ireland with over 90%? Like Gibraltar(over 100%)? No, didn't stop restrictions there either 🤔 The vaccines aren't effective enough. They haven't worked anywhere. Why can't they just admit this?

How can you have over 100% of the population vaccinated?

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MasterBeth · 08/12/2021 20:47

@Whatelsecouldibecalled

Boiling frogs. All of us.

When does it end? Vaccine passports whether you agree or not are taking away freedoms. It is coercing people to have a vaccine when they have a right to choose if they don't want it.

Where does it end? No vaccine no job (already happening!) no vaccine no use of public transport? No vaccine no travel? No vaccine no freedoms? All in the name of safety of course.

I have had my vaccine because I have made a choice. But I support those who choose to have or not to have. That is their right.

Another variant will come. More restrictions will happen. They are restrictions regardless what anyone says. We can never return to 'normal' the government have seized the power in the name of public health and they will not relinquish it now. Short of mass revolt I can't see a way out.

How are you going to revolt? Sit on a bus with your mask off? Good work, Che Guevara.
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XingMing · 08/12/2021 20:49

Covid is now endemic. There are vaccines, several of them, and most cause, at worst, short term discomfort for 24 hours as the worst side effect. BUT the effect at population level is to protect most people, most of the time, from anything more unpleasant than a mild bout of flu.

Of course some people, generally elderly or clinically vulnerable and a few unlucky people with undiagnosed underlying weaknesses, will succumb to it, just as they have done to other diseases for ever. But vaccination will mitigate (only mitigate) the worst effects for most people, in most cases. Where did you read that precautions were not worth taking? Where did you read the guarantee of an 85 year life span? In my book you take the precautionary route and get the jabs, unless you have a damned serious contra-indication to decline.

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MerrilyFcked · 08/12/2021 20:49

@MasterBeth

LOL

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User135644 · 08/12/2021 20:50

We had to have the restrictions last year and over winter as thousands were dying a day in the UK (when we were open) pre-vaccines.

Vaccines have allowed us to have a mostly normal last 6 months or so.

As it stands things are still all staying open - albeit with the advice to WFH if possible and to prove a negative test or proof of vaccine to get into large events, as we get stuck into another winter while a new variant does the rounds.

So, what lockdown?

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x2boys · 08/12/2021 20:50

@oakleaffy

Met a woman in a shop who has just recovered from covid. She has teenaged children, they brought it home from School.
Shr and her husband have been double jabbed, said the covid she had was no worse than a cold.

I worry far more about cancer treatments &c being put on hold because of Covid.

That means nothing though ,for most people including my own child COVID is a fairly mild illness ,but it doesn't stop other people Cathing it and getting very unwell or dying from it
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LumosSolem · 08/12/2021 20:51

just that it's pretty sodding immoral just to let people die when there are interventions that we can take.

I hope you took the same view when the government announced the cuts to ODA @SusieBob

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/26/uk-aid-cuts-unprincipled-unjustified-and-harmful-say-experts-and-mps

“Up to 5.6 million fewer children won’t get vaccinated, that could lead to up to 100,000 deaths,”

Those are hugely valuable interventions we were taking to help some of the world's poorest people. And our shitshow government chose to cut it. Whilst they're rapidly getting booster jabs into 90 year olds in this country, they have cut funding that would have ensured children in the global south had basic life saving childhood vaccines.

Or is it only immoral when it's in the UK and related to COVID?

It's pretty sodding immoral to not consider the harm of withdrawing worthwhile interventions ACROSS the world, I'm bloody sick of people on here who want to feel morally superior with their love of restrictions when they don't give a shit about other interventions we have withdrawn that would save lives. And to not consider the morality and impacts in other ways on continued interventions and restrictions on peoples lives/mental health/education/opportunities in the UK.

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Lovelymincepies · 08/12/2021 20:52

Save your anger for the unvaccinated as it is those selfish people causing this latest lockdown of sorts.

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doublemonkey · 08/12/2021 20:52

@Darbs76

It’s because of the unvaccinated we are facing these restrictions. So no, they are not right, they are very wrong

How do you come to this conclusion?

I thought these new measures were because of a new variant called Omicon.
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User135644 · 08/12/2021 20:52

All those saying "what lock down?" Just wait

If we lockdown it'll be a very last resort just like last January and March 2020, when we were in dire straits. One thing you know with this government is they won't lockdown unless they really have to.

Everything is still open.

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rrhuth · 08/12/2021 20:53

@XingMing

Covid is now endemic. There are vaccines, several of them, and most cause, at worst, short term discomfort for 24 hours as the worst side effect. BUT the effect at population level is to protect most people, most of the time, from anything more unpleasant than a mild bout of flu.

Of course some people, generally elderly or clinically vulnerable and a few unlucky people with undiagnosed underlying weaknesses, will succumb to it, just as they have done to other diseases for ever. But vaccination will mitigate (only mitigate) the worst effects for most people, in most cases. Where did you read that precautions were not worth taking? Where did you read the guarantee of an 85 year life span? In my book you take the precautionary route and get the jabs, unless you have a damned serious contra-indication to decline.

It is not yet endemic. If it was, we wouldn't have had the bloody press conference at all.
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TinyRebel · 08/12/2021 20:53

It's not a lockdown. It's just doing what countries like France has been doing for months and has worked to slow infection rates (along with an 88.5% fully vaccinated rate of over 12s).

  • Masks on public transport - everyone compliant and well enforced from what I could see. No exemptions for people who think they're special.
  • Masks in shops, malls - all indoor public areas basically.
  • Covid pass (full vaccination or recent LFT administered by a pharmacy or test centre) for all indoor venues and restaurants.
    My daughter lives there during termtime. Public health is taken seriously and there's no pissing about. It's had no adverse effect on her life from what I can tell.
    Schools remaining open throughout.
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lazylinguist · 08/12/2021 20:54

The sheer arrogance to think (a) that we can control a virus and (b) that somehow the human race is special and that we have a right to be 'safe'.

What does b) even mean?! We take measures to try to keep ourselves safe, as anyone or any animal would do. It's not about having a right or not having a right to be safe Confused

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Pumperthepumper · 08/12/2021 20:57

@FromEden

no vaccine no use of public transport? No vaccine no travel?

In Canada, you can't use planes or trains if you are unvaccinated. You need a vaccine pass to cross over the land border to the US. So they have already lost the right to travel there and are basically confined to the country. The people supporting this will find themselves on the wrong side eventually and might change their minds then.

It has always been the case that you needed certain vaccines for certain countries. That’s not a new concept.
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bellamountain · 08/12/2021 20:58

@LumosSolem

just that it's pretty sodding immoral just to let people die when there are interventions that we can take.

I hope you took the same view when the government announced the cuts to ODA *@SusieBob*

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/26/uk-aid-cuts-unprincipled-unjustified-and-harmful-say-experts-and-mps

“Up to 5.6 million fewer children won’t get vaccinated, that could lead to up to 100,000 deaths,”

Those are hugely valuable interventions we were taking to help some of the world's poorest people. And our shitshow government chose to cut it. Whilst they're rapidly getting booster jabs into 90 year olds in this country, they have cut funding that would have ensured children in the global south had basic life saving childhood vaccines.

Or is it only immoral when it's in the UK and related to COVID?

It's pretty sodding immoral to not consider the harm of withdrawing worthwhile interventions ACROSS the world, I'm bloody sick of people on here who want to feel morally superior with their love of restrictions when they don't give a shit about other interventions we have withdrawn that would save lives. And to not consider the morality and impacts in other ways on continued interventions and restrictions on peoples lives/mental health/education/opportunities in the UK.

Spot on. Absolutely spot on.
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