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To think the anti-lockdown brigade have been proved right?
393

Libertaire · 08/12/2021 19:34

We were told that if we all got vaccinated life would return to normal, and that process would be ‘cautious but irreversible’. So we complied. I am triple-jabbed and extremely grateful for the work of the brilliant scientists who made this possible.

Yet now, we are heading inexorably back into another lockdown. The fear mongering is being ratcheted up day by day. If this was ever about public health, it cannot be now because everyone who is vulnerable to covid has been offered at least two doses of vaccine.

We surrendered our freedoms willingly, to protect ourselves and one another and because we believed that we would get them back. But that isn’t happening, is it? An authoritarian government has confiscated them permanently and we will never get them back until we take them back, which is what anti-lockdown campaigners said from the start. They have been proved right, haven’t they?

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Am I being unreasonable?

AIBU

You have one vote. All votes are anonymous.

MerrilyFcked · 08/12/2021 20:58

All those saying "what lock down?" Just wait

I have no doubt we are at great risk of a lockdown after Christmas. We are heading for Christmas with 50k cases a day, possibly near 100k a day by Christmas. If Omicron does not turn out to be a much milder variant, without any limitations on Christmas celebrations, January and February will be absolutely horrific. I am worried.

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onlychildhamster · 08/12/2021 20:58

This is a novel virus, and we are adults, we should understand this isn't a fairytale with a happy ending and all loose ends tied up. The government said from the start (yes I know they now have no moral authority) that 'freedom day' was subject to new variants surfacing. There is a new variant now. Our vaccination drive has been massively successful, it has saved thousands from a very painful death/serious disability and has allowed us to even contemplate opening up.

I have parents overseas and a grandmother in a care home overseas who i have not seen for two years. I have a wedding in my home country that I planned (after saving for my flat for three years so it was already late in the first place) for 2020, and which was pushed to 2021 and then 2022 (which I now have no idea whether it would happen due to Omicron variant). My home country is a lot stricter than the UK ! But I refuse to worry about it , I just try to take each day as it comes. If the scientists believe that we need another lockdown to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed, I will believe them because they have the data at their hands to make a better decision than I can with my limited knowledge.

I wear my mask in indoor settings, I am double vaccinated and I will get my third jab when they offer it to over 20s. Lockdowns, restrictions and vaccine passports are not ideal, but no healthcare system in the world can cope with an explosion of covid cases. There will be future variants and probably future lockdowns. It is not just the UK that has to make these difficult decisions. We just have to take each day as it comes.

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luckylavender · 08/12/2021 20:58

It's not a lockdown

Not enough of the World is vaccinated

Nearly every country in the world is struggling

Viruses cannot be made to behave in a certain way

The government is spectacularly incompetent

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/12/2021 20:58

Why do people think the government want lockdown? What's in it for them?

The opportunity to drive people so demented with it all that they'll accept privatisation of the NHS as the price of getting out of this

As for "what it's costing", it's costing the actual government nothing at all since that's our money they're spending ... though between the cronies and other forms of corruption they're making plenty of money out of it on a personal basis

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PoppityInThe · 08/12/2021 20:59

@521Jeanie

The vaccines aren't effective enough. They haven't worked anywhere. Why can't they just admit this?

They worked spectacularly well to stop people getting very sick and dying. They are not so good at preventing transmission, especially against variants which didn't exist when the vaccine was invented.

Covid has always been a mild illness for the majority. How an earth do you know these people wouldn't have it mildly pre-vaccine?
YANBU OP, I'm not complying with any more restrictions, including masks. At the start they looked like crazy conspiracy theorists and now anyone denying it looks like they have their head in the clouds.
I'll eat my hat if we get to the end of Jan with no lockdown.
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GoldenOmber · 08/12/2021 20:59

@TinyRebel

It's not a lockdown. It's just doing what countries like France has been doing for months and has worked to slow infection rates (along with an 88.5% fully vaccinated rate of over 12s).
- Masks on public transport - everyone compliant and well enforced from what I could see. No exemptions for people who think they're special.
- Masks in shops, malls - all indoor public areas basically.
- Covid pass (full vaccination or recent LFT administered by a pharmacy or test centre) for all indoor venues and restaurants.
My daughter lives there during termtime. Public health is taken seriously and there's no pissing about. It's had no adverse effect on her life from what I can tell.
Schools remaining open throughout.

But France's rates have been rocketing up since October. So however great you think it all of that is, it's clearly not achieving the goal of 'preventing covid from spreading very fast', is it?
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WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/12/2021 21:00

@tttigress

This is getting ridiculous now. Many people with 2 and even 3 jabs are getting Covid. It was said at the start of this that an effective vaccine would be difficult to develop.

I really think that we just need to get on with things now, and just focus on treating people that actually get Covid

And how exactly do you expect healthcare systems to be able to cope with that?
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Oldtiredfedup · 08/12/2021 21:01

anyone who actually believed the promise of ‘irreversible’ clearly didn’t understand how viruses work. Johnson was talking bollocks - he could never ever make that promise

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SwedishEdith · 08/12/2021 21:01

@Lostinacloud

The plan is that we won’t be allowed to truly live with covid in the sense that we used to live with winter viruses. Even though they seem to be keeping very quiet about how dangerous omnicron is, most reports so far suggest it has evolved into a mild cold virus as expected. This should be the best news ever, to be celebrated from the rooftops and all restrictions immediately lifted, including travel ones, so that omnicron can spread as fast as possible and become the dominant strain worldwide.
But no, that’s not going to happen. Everywhere needs to keep its population tied down and restricted until everywhere has had the chance to fully install the vaccine passports. Then there will be a global digital ID system and that is the plan.

Who is planning "the plan"?
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Wide · 08/12/2021 21:01

It's not the unvaccinateds fault about the restrictions!!! People who choose not to have the jab are making the choice about themselves and only putting themselves at 'risk', if the so called vaccine was so good people who had it would be 'protected' from these weird unvaccinated species,you can still catch covid from one jabbed person to another. Stop blaming the unvaccinated if you think your jab is so good,you had the jab so if that's good be confident in it and stop blaming others for spreading something you can still bloody catch! So yes OP I agree the anti lockdown people are right and more fool people for having the wool pulled over their eyes,getting 3 jabs and for what??

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ilovesooty · 08/12/2021 21:01

@LittleDandelionClock

YANBU, and like fucking arseholes am I going to comply. They can kiss my fat hairy ass.

What aren't you going to comply with then?
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Echobelly · 08/12/2021 21:02

We don't know what it would have been like without lockdowns... well, actually we do kind of know because look how many more people have died in the UK compared to just about everywhere else this autumn. Some people are being smug that now Europe's levels are rising - but only to around or less than what we've been at for 3 months now.

There are no 'good' solutions to a pandemic unless you have medical mitigation or extremely effective vaccines.

I think this is an awful, controlling government that I don't trust in the slightest, but I simply don't believe that they're mounting lockdowns because they're somehow enjoying the power it gives them, it makes no sense at all. Lockdowns cost money, lose them income taxes, depress the value of their office real estate investment portfolio that's managed by their chums. Believe me, if this government could keep everything open and tell the NHS not to treat old or vulnerable people - they can just die at home - they fucking would.

It doesn't 'benefit' to the government at all. And lockdowns have been staged all over the world by governments of almost all political leanings. Jacinda Arden is hardly a power-crazed maniac laughing at controlling people's movements. Many politicians are bad, but they're not baddies from children's cartoons doing things just to show how powerful they are.

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MerrilyFcked · 08/12/2021 21:02

@Wide

It's not the unvaccinateds fault about the restrictions!!! People who choose not to have the jab are making the choice about themselves and only putting themselves at 'risk', if the so called vaccine was so good people who had it would be 'protected' from these weird unvaccinated species,you can still catch covid from one jabbed person to another. Stop blaming the unvaccinated if you think your jab is so good,you had the jab so if that's good be confident in it and stop blaming others for spreading something you can still bloody catch! So yes OP I agree the anti lockdown people are right and more fool people for having the wool pulled over their eyes,getting 3 jabs and for what??

For what? Less fucking risk of death.
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rrhuth · 08/12/2021 21:02

@Oldtiredfedup

anyone who actually believed the promise of ‘irreversible’ clearly didn’t understand how viruses work. Johnson was talking bollocks - he could never ever make that promise

Exactly. I hate him for bullshitting all the time.
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XingMing · 08/12/2021 21:07

If you want to visit certain countries, you are advised strongly to have a yellow fever vaccine. It's a live vaccine, with side effects. So if you want to visit that country, you choose either vaccination or no vaccination or no visit. Your decision.

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WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/12/2021 21:08

@oakleaffy

Met a woman in a shop who has just recovered from covid. She has teenaged children, they brought it home from School.
Shr and her husband have been double jabbed, said the covid she had was no worse than a cold.

I worry far more about cancer treatments &c being put on hold because of Covid.

Cancer operations are being cancelled because beds are full of Covid patients.
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TheAntiGardener · 08/12/2021 21:08

@DappledOliveGroves

It's never made any sense. I've been against every lockdown. The sheer arrogance to think (a) that we can control a virus and (b) that somehow the human race is special and that we have a right to be 'safe'. What utter bollocks.

The right to be safe comment is bizarre - I think all sentient creatures have an instinct for self-preservation. Do you also think that hospitals, the fire brigade and health and safety obligations also make no sense?
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Sleeplikelog · 08/12/2021 21:08

@Lostinacloud Then what will happen, after the digital ID?

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SusieBob · 08/12/2021 21:08

@LumosSolem

just that it's pretty sodding immoral just to let people die when there are interventions that we can take.

I hope you took the same view when the government announced the cuts to ODA *@SusieBob*

www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/26/uk-aid-cuts-unprincipled-unjustified-and-harmful-say-experts-and-mps

“Up to 5.6 million fewer children won’t get vaccinated, that could lead to up to 100,000 deaths,”

Those are hugely valuable interventions we were taking to help some of the world's poorest people. And our shitshow government chose to cut it. Whilst they're rapidly getting booster jabs into 90 year olds in this country, they have cut funding that would have ensured children in the global south had basic life saving childhood vaccines.

Or is it only immoral when it's in the UK and related to COVID?

It's pretty sodding immoral to not consider the harm of withdrawing worthwhile interventions ACROSS the world, I'm bloody sick of people on here who want to feel morally superior with their love of restrictions when they don't give a shit about other interventions we have withdrawn that would save lives. And to not consider the morality and impacts in other ways on continued interventions and restrictions on peoples lives/mental health/education/opportunities in the UK.

Well done, you missed the point entirely.

Xmas Hmm
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PoppityInThe · 08/12/2021 21:09

I remember compulsory vaccines will never happen.
Deprivation of liberties if you choose not to have an 'optional' new vaccine will never happen.
Covid passports or government tracking/ approval neccasary on your phone to enter certain places will never happen.

Yet where are we. I realise now I was originally the one wearing the metaphorical metal hat at the start of this. I've taken it off. We've got to move on with life now. Sadly some will die, as they die with flu and various other illnesses, but as is the nature of life. People have been delayed cancer treatment because of something that for the vast majority is a mild illness.

The economy can't afford it. Mental health can't afford it. Health generally can't afford it.

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Floraflower3 · 08/12/2021 21:10

I think the government are trying to take precautions which I think is sensible.

In my London hospital, our covid ward (used to be care of the elderly admissions), covid HDU and assisted ventilation unit are full. My medical ward is now going to be turned into COVID because there’s barely any bed flow around the hospital.

One of the biggest points of the vaccine is how it reduces the risk of serious illness. The majority of people we see admitted with covid at the moment are unvaccinated. I believe if everyone who could was vaccinated, you would see fewer admissions, there would be less worry about the NHS and no need for restrictions 🤷🏽‍♀️

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Wide · 08/12/2021 21:13

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

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GatoradeMeBitch · 08/12/2021 21:14

Even a child should know that viruses don't act according to the rules made by politicians.

Quite. it reminds me of people who were trying to force a "keep calm and carry on" narrative last year, as if the virus would be too intimidated to infect someone who was purposefully going about their day.

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Kathryn2010 · 08/12/2021 21:14

It’s not a lockdown. We are simply being asked to wear masked. Working from is optional and not compulsory. Not everyone who is vulnerable is protected. Vulnerability status can sadly change in a heartbeat. Cancer doesn’t choose either and can happen to anyone at any point. I don’t feel as though my liberties are taken away by popping a mask on that may protect someone who needs the protection.

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Whitefire · 08/12/2021 21:15

Vaccine rate is on a par with many other countries, we are hardly a nation of vaccine avoiders. The vaccinated are still catching and spreading it.

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