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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

365 replies

Bear45 · 08/12/2021 18:03

As title says!
He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 08/12/2021 18:52

@Glassofshloer

They should pay.

But I can also acknowledge women have a much greater control over contraception - men only have condoms or vasectomy. One is quite unreliable, the other permanent.

The sooner the male pill (or whatever) becomes mainstream the better.

They created it thirty years ago studies showed that women wouldn't trust men to take it so it didn't go into production
Estellelove · 08/12/2021 18:53

How can people say, well she could get an abortion, as of it's the simplest thing in the world???
It's often a massive emotional trauma and can also be a physical trauma depending on how well the pill takes/how early on in the pregnancy she is able to have the abortion.
For a lot of women it's really difficult to abort for all kinds of reasons - and it is absolutely not true that women who find pregnancy intolarable don't get pregnant by accident.
Regardless of whether she chooses to keep the pregnancy or not, the mans right to an opinion is over the minute he ejaculates inside her.

Viviennemary · 08/12/2021 18:53

Yes he should have to pay because thats the law. But I don't think he should need to be a part of the childs life if he doesn't want a child. Thats where his choice comes in.

tootootaataa · 08/12/2021 18:54

@MrsLarry

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.
Are these the same women am that seduce the poor men. These weak feeble men who are unable to resist the sultry charms if the alluring female? I bet that they are so mesmerized, they can't even contemplate taking responsibility for their own birth control?

Pffff

BeeDavis · 08/12/2021 18:54

I personally wouldn’t keep a baby if the father wasn’t interested. But that’s me 😵‍💫

StellaGibson118 · 08/12/2021 18:54

It doesn't really matter whether he should, legally he has a requirement.

mbosnz · 08/12/2021 18:54

I do think that people should have 'the talk' about what happens if the woman is impregnated, before they have sex.

I imagine it could pour some very cold water over some over optimistic males as they're in rut.

girlmom21 · 08/12/2021 18:54

@mbosnz

I do think that people should have 'the talk' about what happens if the woman is impregnated, before they have sex.

I imagine it could pour some very cold water over some over optimistic males as they're in rut.

I agree with this.
NynaeveSedai · 08/12/2021 18:54

[quote MrzClaus]@NynaeveSedai

"Yeah it literally does though
When he puts his penis inside a woman's vagina and ejaculates his semen he is consenting to pregnancy."

So a woman having PIV intercourse and consenting to a man ejaculating in her without a condom is also consenting to pregnancy? Or does she have a choice post consent to sex, to also consent to being pregnant? Same should be for both parties.

[/quote]
Yes of course she is! Of course she also has further options that the man no longer has but why would she not be consenting to pregnancy? That's how it works!

Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:55

@Theunamedcat ideal situation would be if the man and woman both take a pill. Extra effective that way and no worry that the other person was lying about contraception. Obviously condoms work too but we all know they have their downfalls.

NynaeveSedai · 08/12/2021 18:55

@Glassofshloer

They should pay.

But I can also acknowledge women have a much greater control over contraception - men only have condoms or vasectomy. One is quite unreliable, the other permanent.

The sooner the male pill (or whatever) becomes mainstream the better.

They could also choose not to ejaculate inside a woman. Sex isn't just man squirts inside woman.
NynaeveSedai · 08/12/2021 18:56

@Electriq

No, I don't think they should, I think they should have as much choice as women do.
When they can get pregnant they get the same choice as women do. Until that day, they don't.
Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:56

@Estellelove

How can people say, well she could get an abortion, as of it's the simplest thing in the world??? It's often a massive emotional trauma and can also be a physical trauma depending on how well the pill takes/how early on in the pregnancy she is able to have the abortion. For a lot of women it's really difficult to abort for all kinds of reasons - and it is absolutely not true that women who find pregnancy intolarable don't get pregnant by accident. Regardless of whether she chooses to keep the pregnancy or not, the mans right to an opinion is over the minute he ejaculates inside her.
Not doubting that an abortion is massively traumatic and emotional but so is pregnancy, childbirth and raising a child. Both options are.
Theunamedcat · 08/12/2021 18:56

@MrsLarry

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.
For FUCKS SAKE

HE is responsible for HIS sexual health and HIS contraception

Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/12/2021 18:57

@girlmom21 the vast majority of women do not earn enough to pay for childcare and all household bills without claiming some form of assistance via UC. So yes, it's possible to work but it's not necessarily possible to support a child on one income, if the father isn't picking up the shortfall then the taxpayer is.

NynaeveSedai · 08/12/2021 18:57

@MrsLarry

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.
Men still have the choice to use their own contraception. Or not ejaculate inside their partner.
mbosnz · 08/12/2021 19:00

I'd really hate to have sex with a man that was incapable of putting on a condom. Or thinking 'what if I don't put on a condom'?

Generally, it seems to be men that are resistant to taking personal responsibility for contraception, given that it apparently interferes with their sexual pleasure. Oh dear. How Sad. Saddle up boys.

NynaeveSedai · 08/12/2021 19:00

This is bonkers. There are millions of couples who don't want children. Does that mean they should remain celibate forever, just in case?

No, they should use reliable contraception that they are both happy with. That might include no ejaculating inside the woman. There is more to sex than man squirting inside woman.

Morechocolatethanbarbara · 08/12/2021 19:01

I love the way that none of the ardent "men's rights" supporters have suggested how said baby should be paid for if the father doesn't contribute.

Most people I know either need 2 incomes and/or help from the state to raise a child these days. So are you suggesting that the tax payers pay for the child-rearing instead of the father?

Or do we send the mother to the poor house if she can't afford to raise the child by herself and refuse her state support?

Why should people who had no input to the child being created (tax-payers) pay for it, or a child be left in poverty whilst the man (who had sex knowing it may create a child) walk away absolved of any responsibility?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Finknottlesnewt · 08/12/2021 19:01

Parents of boys need to educate them.
The education system is woefully inadequate in this regard.

  1. Parents need to talk to their son and educate them to guard their fertility if they do not want to be responsible/financially responsible for children.
  1. Schools need to educate boys AND girls. Boys to understand that EVERY act of sex can result in a pregnancy and therefore a financial responsibility for life.

To get it through their stupid heads that a girl telling you ' it's alright I'm on the pill' .. to NEVER take that as an absolute and to use their own contraceptive precautions.

FOR girls to value themselves more . If he treats you like shit .. he is not going to behave better or love you more 'if you have his baby' ... he will still leave you. With a baby.

Honestly ..
Education, education, education.

Rainbowqueeen · 08/12/2021 19:02

No contraception is 100 percent effective. So there is always the risk of pregnancy. Every single time

The focus in society now is on sex being purely for pleasure. Well it’s not. There are potential consequences and these should not be solely the responsibility of women.

Having an abortion is not an easy option with no impact on a woman. At the very least it involves time - to organise it, recover from it etc. then it is part of your life forever. It is part of your medical history, something that you will be asked about in the future. People judge you for it. There is a lot of evidence about mental health issues relating to past abortions.

No matter the outcome of the pregnancy it will have an impact on a woman.

Like all woman’s issues it needs to be taken more seriously and not just ignored in favour of doing what best suits men

Mumoftwoinprimary · 08/12/2021 19:03

Men know when they have sex that if the woman gets pregnant then they won’t get to choose whether the pregnancy continues. This has been the law since abortion was legalised. (Nearly 50 years!) They choose to have sex knowing this. It isn’t a shocking surprise. It is a risk they choose to take on.

It isn’t as if women are in a great situation….. If a woman gets pregnant she has two choices.

  1. Have an abortion. This has a mortality rate of about 1 in 100,000 in the U.K. pretty low but similar to that of jumping out of a plane with a parachute.
  2. Have the baby. This has a mortality rate of about 10 in 100,000 in the U.K. So 10 times that of jumping out of a plane with a parachute.

There is no option for a pregnant woman that doesn’t involve risking her health.

WhatWhenWhoWhy · 08/12/2021 19:07

This is bonkers. There are millions of couples who don't want children. Does that mean they should remain celibate forever, just in case?

No, but hopefully as adults we all realise the consequences of sex, and the main consequence of sex is pregnancy. Both parties have to acknowledge their responsibility of they don't use contraception, or that contraception fails. If the couple are in a committed relationship, then one would hope that "what if?" is a conversation they've had.

At the end of the day though, it's an inescapable fact that having sex can lead to procreation!

TractorAndHeadphones · 08/12/2021 19:08

@User135792468

I don’t agree. A woman also had sex.. does that mean that the man should be able to force her to have the baby against her will, take the baby at birth and then claim maintenance? Of course not, the concept is abhorrent.

It’s hard but if a woman chooses to have a baby and the man makes clear he doesn’t want the baby when pregnant, he should be able to revoke parents responsibility and she should make the decision based on being able to afford to raise the child herself.

Exactly. If she does not want to raise the baby alone she should abort it. She shouldn’t be able to have it against his will and then force him to pay.

The fact that there are many deadbeat dads etc etc is irrelevant.

And you can’t say ‘well don’t have sex’ because in countries where that happens (like mine) and abortion isn’t allowed you just get baby dumping.

lololololollll · 08/12/2021 19:09

I agree they should. But the naive people who say they have to if CSA are involved obviously haven't had the CSA being totally crap believing every very lie they tell them about why they can't afford it. Am currently helping my friend through dealing with my this. Congrats on your pregnancy and stick to your guns, hopefully he will do the right thing in the end