To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

[Bear45]

As title says!
He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

Friend still had to pay the child maintenance for 18 years. Personally, I don't think this is right

What?!? Would you say the same if a mother said this?

At the point of having sex you both accept that if a baby is born from that act you have to take financial responsibility.

Both men and women have the right to try to prevent a baby being born by using contraception and it's sensible to do so if you don't want a baby.

On a separate but related note about bodily autonomy:

Anyone who finds themselves pregnant has a right (within certain rules)to seek an abortion or not. Any man who finds he is carrying a fetus and doesn't want to be I absolutely think is just as entitled to make a choice about his body as any woman is to make a choice about hers. (Fortunately for men they don't have to use this right but I will support them in it, their body their choice).

No man or woman gets to abdicate financial responsibility to a child, that's for the child. No man or woman gets to force a medical intervention / birth. No man or woman is forced to have a medical intervention / birth. That seems very fair.

Reading posts from women trying to excuse men from any responsibility at all is so depressing. A shit load of men walk away without ever contributing a penny - please don't worry they are being burdened and trapped by nasty women, they really aren't.

Yes. Sex = chance of baby.
Don’t like it don’t have it.

This.

And the stuff about using condoms or choosing a vasectomy, depending on how much he really doesn't want children at all, rather than just not at his convenience. I am fed up with hearing about men's nonsense today, and from their apologists.

I just wonder how many of you would change your tune slightly if your darling teenage son got an ‘unsuitable’ girlfriend pregnant

I'm totally in the minority here, but why continue with a pregnancy knowing he is not going to be around to support you? You are making the decision, on behalf of that child, to bring them into the world, fatherless? Is that fair? The guy, in a few years time, might settle down & have kids with someone else & yours is going to be thinking 'why doesn't he want to see me'?

Internalised misogyny much?

I dont believe the "a man agrees to a potential pregnancy when he has sex" line. It's so simplistic. It belongs in the same category as "a woman agrees to have sex when she undresses".

Why should a man have a vasectomy? Maybe he would like kids one day, just not now and not with you.

In most cases as women we have ample opportunity to stop a pregnancy if we choose. Going ahead with it when the man doesnt want it is selfish towards the kid, the man and society. I see it as the ultimate capitalistic act, in which your own wants take precedence over just about everybody else's. The man doesnt want to be a father. The child would want a father. Society doesn't want to pay for your wilfully poor financial decisions.

Some women on here seem to confuse empowerment with selfishness.

The woman might not want it either but might feel an abortion is morally wrong, or not right for her. Again yes, from an entirely utilitarian standpoint, you may have point but not when you bring humanity into it. An unplanned pregnancy is no one's first choice but once it happens, the decision making balance changes because biology. Men know that and should take it into account. Women have borne (literally) the consequences of men's casual shagging around for centuries. Now they're being told they shouldn't / can't walk away in this one aspect and suddenly it's an enfringement of his rights. An abortion is not a simple or easy decision as some on here seem to think.. Its not 'oh well, I'll just get that nipped out'.

I dont believe the "a man agrees to a potential pregnancy when he has sex" line. It's so simplistic. It belongs in the same category as "a woman agrees to have sex when she undresses".

It's not remotely the same. Men and women both know that even with both of them trying their utmost to prevent a pregnancy, it could still happen if they have sex. How is that in any way the same as a man deciding that a woman has consented to sex by removing her clothes?

Why should a man have a vasectomy? Maybe he would like kids one day, just not now and not with you.

He isn't obliged to. But obviously he runs the risk of impregnating the "wrong" woman at the "wrong" time if he doesn't. He has to decide if that's a risk he's willing to take.

In most cases as women we have ample opportunity to stop a pregnancy if we choose. Going ahead with it when the man doesnt want it is selfish towards the kid, the man and society. I see it as the ultimate capitalistic act, in which your own wants take precedence over just about everybody else's. The man doesnt want to be a father. The child would want a father. Society doesn't want to pay for your wilfully poor financial decisions.

Wow, this is offensive. Not every woman feels the need to live her life according to what some man wants. And society paying for her wilfully poor financial decisions? Because all single mother are scroungers on benefits, I guess, pushing out kid after kid? I'm sure none of then work and pay taxes.
Also, having kids in general, like pretty much everything else humans do, is a selfish act. We do it because we want them, because we think our lived will be better and richer with them.
I notice you're not accusing the man of selfishness for not having anything to do with his child who wants a father.

Some women on here seem to confuse empowerment with selfishness.

empowerment: "the process of becoming stronger and more confident, especially in controlling one's life and claiming one's rights."

I can definitely see how some men would decide a woman who does this and doesn't bend to his will is "selfish."

@NorthSouthcatlady

Love it when women “need” to have painful and invasive procedures for men’s convenience! That’s before even the emotional fall out from abortions

Love it when abortions are picked on as being ‘painful and invasive’ , but the only other option - a further 9 months of discomfort followed by the even more dangerous pushing out if a human and potentially decades of damage to your life - is lauded as the better option because ‘women just have feelings and want to keep the baby’.

Give over.

I think you’re potentially ruining your own life quite frankly even if he pays, the money doesn’t make up for the fact that some men won’t touch you with a barge pole now because you have a child I’m sorry but that’s true.

The pick of the bunch that you left with arent always good men and you’ll have to compromise on your relationship, you will never have that time alone just you and your partner and that’s not healthy.

You don’t have to do this so personally I would be getting rid of it moving on and finding a man that actually wants to be with you.

tractor its not an equation ffs. If you think that a woman chooses an abortion solely on grounds of comparable pain or discomfort you havent the faintest fucking clue what you're talking about and should not be commenting. Those on this thread who see the woman's choice to abort as a simple 'she can just' are failing to factor in a whole raft of arguments and factors about what some people (not me by the way) think about ending a foetus life. In the case of a split condom, I do think both parties should be proactive about getting hold of the MAP, however so the 'problem' never really gets started.

@HugeAckmansWife

tractor its not an equation ffs. If you think that a woman chooses an abortion solely on grounds of comparable pain or discomfort you havent the faintest fucking clue what you're talking about and should not be commenting. Those on this thread who see the woman's choice to abort as a simple 'she can just' are failing to factor in a whole raft of arguments and factors about what some people (not me by the way) think about ending a foetus life. In the case of a split condom, I do think both parties should be proactive about getting hold of the MAP, however so the 'problem' never really gets started.

This thread is blowing my mind. Why does she want to have a baby with this person? He'll be a shit dad and is obviously not ready. They're probably not living together as she's not seen him for three weeks since the news. Get rid. She doesn't need to ruin her life. Also people with views on foetuses == babies == precious life really shouldn't be engaging in recreational sex. Which is what sex/causal relationships are in 2021.

@TractorAndHeadphones lm pro-choice. I fully acknowledge giving birth is painful and you may well be left with birth injuries. I never said it wasn’t . I get aggrieved when women have to the shitty end of the stick because men won’t wear a condom or have the snip

Sex isnt necessarily casual or recreational in 2021. Plenty of established relationships go tits up when an unexpected pregnancy happens. It's really honestly pretty simple. Men know biology. They know a woman can't be made to have an abortion so there is a chance they will be 50% responsible for a foetus. Lucky them that they can fuck off and do zero parenting and pay just 14% of their post pension pay. Not really onerous is it? But they KNOW this. Their choice is just as real as the woman's. They have one fewer roll of the dice but thats unalterable biology.

The most recent episode I know like this was a settled relationship where the woman got pregnant unexpectedly (I don’t know their contraception set up but they weren’t planning a baby). The boyfriend immediately demanded she get an abortion, and when she refused (catholic and also was willing to raise this child) he left and ghosted her completely. Thank FUCK his family as well as society have made him take responsibility and support his child because it was no-one’s fault and him freaking out about it shouldn’t mean the woman had to abort what became a much loved child. By the “logic” of some on this thread she should have been forced to.

(Surely when you find yourself advocating forced abortion or taking perfectly loved kids into care, that’s when you turn around and go “am I the bad guys?”

@Rabblesthecat

I go against the grain - no they should not.

Everyone (including the mother) has a choice up to 22 weeks. It may be a choice you don’t want to make but you are still making a choice the other way to keep it.

No baby conceived has to be born so I don’t see why they should have to pay if they have no say in its existence.

I'm sorry but the law states otherwise! Everyone knows ANY sex can potentially lead to conception. If he doesn't want the responsibility then he should not have sex!

@Thegreencup

Unless the condom he was wearing and the hormonal contraception he was using failed, then he should face the consequences of his choices.

Oh so because the contraceptive failed, the mother should pay for everything?!?!? No sorry. The law is clear. You father a child - you pay for the child

@peboh

I do not agree. I think if a man makes it clear straight away in pregnancy that he doesn't want a child then he should be able to revoke parental responsibility. The same as if a woman was to not want a child, but the father did, she would be able to make the choice for both of them.

So the woman should have to pay for everything just because he's decided "Nah, don't fancy being a Dad, sorry!"

No. The law is clear. So so clear.

I'm sorry but the law states otherwise!

It's a debate about morals vs law. We know what the law says.

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove What?!?! The mother cannot 'refuse to leave the father's name off the birth certificate!' Mothers CANNOT by LAW add a father's name or anybody's name onto a birth certificate without them present to sign it! Give your head a shake

@FabianK

I’ve always thought men should be able to opt out of parental responsibility including csa payments up to a certain time.

Women can make a choice and men should be able to also.

That is more than fair.

So the woman has to pay everything just because the man has decided "Nah, no thanks"

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove

If the mother names him on the birth certificate then yes he should pay. If she doesn't then no he shouldn't.

The mother CANNOT 'name him' on the birth certificate ffs! 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️ He HAS to be there and name himself and bloody SIGN the damn thing!

@FriendWoes111

I dont believe the "a man agrees to a potential pregnancy when he has sex" line. It's so simplistic. It belongs in the same category as "a woman agrees to have sex when she undresses".

Why should a man have a vasectomy? Maybe he would like kids one day, just not now and not with you.

In most cases as women we have ample opportunity to stop a pregnancy if we choose. Going ahead with it when the man doesnt want it is selfish towards the kid, the man and society. I see it as the ultimate capitalistic act, in which your own wants take precedence over just about everybody else's. The man doesnt want to be a father. The child would want a father. Society doesn't want to pay for your wilfully poor financial decisions.

Some women on here seem to confuse empowerment with selfishness.

Wow. Just wow. What a truly heartless individual you are. Staggering