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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

365 replies

Bear45 · 08/12/2021 18:03

As title says!
He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

OP posts:
MrzClaus · 08/12/2021 18:37

@NynaeveSedai

"Yeah it literally does though
When he puts his penis inside a woman's vagina and ejaculates his semen he is consenting to pregnancy."

So a woman having PIV intercourse and consenting to a man ejaculating in her without a condom is also consenting to pregnancy? Or does she have a choice post consent to sex, to also consent to being pregnant? Same should be for both parties.

Glassofshloer · 08/12/2021 18:38

They should pay.

But I can also acknowledge women have a much greater control over contraception - men only have condoms or vasectomy. One is quite unreliable, the other permanent.

The sooner the male pill (or whatever) becomes mainstream the better.

Coyoacan · 08/12/2021 18:38

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove

If the mother names him on the birth certificate then yes he should pay. If she doesn't then no he shouldn't.
The level of ignorance is shocking
Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:39

I actually agree with @Rabblesthecat. If he didn't want the baby and he's happy to relinquish all rights then I don't think he should be financially committed to you/baby for the rest of his life. It's your body and ultimately your choice to keep the baby not his. If he's not having any involvement and has made it clear he doesn't want the baby I don't think he should be expected to pay.

Electriq · 08/12/2021 18:40

No, I don't think they should, I think they should have as much choice as women do.

Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:40

@SantasGoodLittleGirl

Obviously, he should pay. To avoid paying child support, men should use effective contraception, or refrain from having sex.
That's difficult though as it does happen where man thinks woman is taking the pill, she forgets a pill or it's not 100% effective. Accidents happen.
Justheretoaskaquestion91 · 08/12/2021 18:41

@NynaeveSedai

Forcing women to terminate pregnancies is not equivalent to allowing men to opt out of paying child support! There is no equivalence fgs. Only one sex gets pregnant

No, women aborting babies men want to keep and they don’t, and men absolving parental responsibility for babies they don’t want to keep and the woman does is an equivalent

Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/12/2021 18:41

@Electriq

No, I don't think they should, I think they should have as much choice as women do.
They already have way more choice than women do as a huge amount of men get away with not paying a penny.
MrsLarry · 08/12/2021 18:42

@peterPomegranate

So, what if the man wanted to keep the baby but the woman didn't?

freezingtoes12 · 08/12/2021 18:42

@User135792468

I don’t agree. A woman also had sex.. does that mean that the man should be able to force her to have the baby against her will, take the baby at birth and then claim maintenance? Of course not, the concept is abhorrent.

It’s hard but if a woman chooses to have a baby and the man makes clear he doesn’t want the baby when pregnant, he should be able to revoke parents responsibility and she should make the decision based on being able to afford to raise the child herself.

This is non-sensical. There is a vital difference and you are comparing apples and oranges.

The woman is the one going through the pain / experience of child birth. With an organism draining her resources. She must eat well, drink well, exercise, stay healthy, take supplements. The man simply ejaculated. The woman accepted at sexual intercourse that she could get pregnant too. They both accepted the same thing. You are taking it a step further about forced carrying.

changing221 · 08/12/2021 18:43

What an incredibly sad situation.

OP are you sure you want to have a baby on your own, knowing the dad wants zero to do with you and the baby?

freezingtoes12 · 08/12/2021 18:43

[quote Justheretoaskaquestion91]@NynaeveSedai

Forcing women to terminate pregnancies is not equivalent to allowing men to opt out of paying child support! There is no equivalence fgs. Only one sex gets pregnant

No, women aborting babies men want to keep and they don’t, and men absolving parental responsibility for babies they don’t want to keep and the woman does is an equivalent[/quote]
no it is not equivalent. One is a medical procedure with long term health effects.

The other is a small financial contribution deemed to be affordable to the man.

mbosnz · 08/12/2021 18:45

So, if men can abdicate any responsibility for any unplanned pregnancies, then there's no consequences for them whatsoever, is there?

How is that fair?

They're not going to have to go through pregnancy, go through childbirth, go through any life altering changes as a result, and apparently now the child they have 50% responsibility in having created has no claim on their support?

How is that fair.

Stick it in the hole or don't. That's when they get their fucking choice. Literally. After that, it's down to the woman. Put a cap on it, pull the tubes out of it, but never forget, once there is a pregnancy, it is the people most affected, the woman and the child, that have the most rights. As they should.

freezingtoes12 · 08/12/2021 18:46

@Glassofshloer

They should pay.

But I can also acknowledge women have a much greater control over contraception - men only have condoms or vasectomy. One is quite unreliable, the other permanent.

The sooner the male pill (or whatever) becomes mainstream the better.

He could choose to not have penetrative sex. He could also get a vasectomy reversed.

Contraceptive pills have negative effects on women too and can be unreliable also.

MrsLarry · 08/12/2021 18:46

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.

Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:46

@YungWaffle

I don't think the government should be able to force people into surgical procedures and I don't think I should be forced to pay for men to sow their oats with gay abandon when they are able to pay themselves. For all those who think men should be able to financially abandon their children, who do you think will be making up the shortfall?
I don't think anyone should be making the shortfall. If I was in that position I would consider my finances and personal circumstances. Can I afford to have this child? Can I afford childcare when I return to work. If no and I cannot afford to provide for this child then I'm not in a position to go through with the pregnancy.
Theunamedcat · 08/12/2021 18:46

@NynaeveSedai

Why do women advocate for men being able to spunk at will then relinquish responsibility for babies they create? I literally cannot understand why any women would advocate for something so wholely bad for women and children and society in general, where the only benefit is allowing men to have risk free sex with whoever they want. What on Earth?
On here? They might not be women its anonymous in real life?

The condom split the map didn't work my daughter was born we tried to make a go of it but we were incompatible (understatement) so we split and tried to coparent, he struggled with addiction I doubled down on keeping dd safe but still facilitating contact he was getting clean then he met her the funky junkie, they had the idea they were taking my daughter off me (not happening) so she got pregnant and married and suddenly his daughter didn't exist anymore then I turned into a baby hungry whore in their mind who used him for his sperm and money (I earned more than him) I was 24 she accused me of being desperate for children she accused me of promising an abortion and backing out (nope) she accused me of being middle aged and taking advantage of him (he was 22) she accused me of so.much shite it was unbelievable and yet people believed it

When I married (dd was 9) she said that "they" didn't have to pay child support because it was my husband responsibility now they weren't paying before ffs

So I can well believe these women exist

And the worst is my ex did it before too and abandoned another child he won't say who or where she is but there is another one with a similar story

TheAverageUser · 08/12/2021 18:47

I can't speak to general morality issue but if it was me and I was having a baby I knew the father didn't want and we weren't together then I wouldn't expect money. Id have made the decision to keep my baby and raise it as a single parent.

Pixiedust138 · 08/12/2021 18:48

@Ohsugarhoneyicetea

I'm an ardent feminist but I do think if the sperm donor wants nothing to do with the child there should be some mechanism within the abortion window where they can relinquish parental responsibility and have no financial obligations. The woman can then proceed with the pregnancy knowing this, or at that point have an abortion. I think there are women who would prefer this as well, knowing they have no contact obligations in the future.
Totally agree
Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/12/2021 18:49

@MrsLarry

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.
If a man doesn't want a baby he needs to be responsible for his own contraception, not rely on the woman. I take the pill because I do not want a baby, I wouldn't rely on a man to use contraception if I didn't want a baby. More fool the man if they're not taking their own precautions.
luverlybubberly · 08/12/2021 18:50

I don't think they should have to pay and especially not where the mother deliberately refuses to leave the fathers name off the birth certificate. It's fine to want to go it alone and not share parental responsibility at the end of it but then don't expect him to pay financially for a child you won't even legally acknowledge as the father

Women can't add their unmarried partner's name to a birth certificate without him being present at the appointment. If a woman is married then she can show her marriage certificate and Dad can be included. When people break up then inviting and estranged partner to register the baby isn't always possible because things may be acrimonious or one of the parents may have moved away.

It's not difficult getting your name added to a birth certificate. You might have to do a DNA test if mum is spiteful but it's straight forward if you're the Dad.

viques · 08/12/2021 18:50

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove

If the mother names him on the birth certificate then yes he should pay. If she doesn't then no he shouldn't.
A woman can’t “name”a man on the birth certificate unless she is married to him. If they are not married the man has to be present at the registration. I found this out when I tried to name Prince Charles as the father of my triplets............ Grin
PleasantBirthday · 08/12/2021 18:50

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception?

Surely even thicko men can understand that if you don't want a baby, you use contraception, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

girlmom21 · 08/12/2021 18:51

@fallfallfall

if you don't want a baby then don't have sex. yes they should pay.
This is bonkers. There are millions of couples who don't want children. Does that mean they should remain celibate forever, just in case?
girlmom21 · 08/12/2021 18:52

@getsanta

So some posters are saying that if a woman chooses not to have an abortion, the father can absolve himself of all responsibility forever? Do you understand the repercussions of this?!? Who will pick up the slack when the single mother needs money to raise the child ? This is ridiculous.
The mother. It's perfectly possible to work and be a parent.

If she chooses to proceed with a pregnancy alone then of course she's responsible for her own income.

And your comment is quite insulting to the millions of women who do earn their own money, single parents or otherwise.

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