To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

[Bear45]

As title says!
He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

** Rabblesthecat
I go against the grain - no they should not.

Everyone (including the mother) has a choice up to 22 weeks. It may be a choice you don’t want to make but you are still making a choice the other way to keep it.

No baby conceived has to be born so I don’t see why they should have to pay if they have no say in its existence.

I agree with this 💯**

^I agree with this too.

@Mumoftwoinprimary

Men know when they have sex that if the woman gets pregnant then they won’t get to choose whether the pregnancy continues. This has been the law since abortion was legalised. (Nearly 50 years!) They choose to have sex knowing this. It isn’t a shocking surprise. It is a risk they choose to take on.

It isn’t as if women are in a great situation….. If a woman gets pregnant she has two choices.

1. Have an abortion. This has a mortality rate of about 1 in 100,000 in the U.K. pretty low but similar to that of jumping out of a plane with a parachute.
2. Have the baby. This has a mortality rate of about 10 in 100,000 in the U.K. So 10 times that of jumping out of a plane with a parachute.

There is no option for a pregnant woman that doesn’t involve risking her health.

Well if women think the risks are too great they can just not have sex, like pp are suggesting men should have done. Can’t have it both ways. Historically women were supposed to more pure etc not just as a way to control women but because of the very real biological risk that she would be left holding the baby. We’ve left that era and women still carry the higher risk but we have legal abortions now. If a woman doesn’t want to avail herself of something millions of women in other countries have fought for her choice - but she must accept the consequences of that choice .

Of course he should. His point of decision was before his genetic material left his body.

CSA is the absolute bare minimum of financial support he should provide.

I’d never trust a mans say so on contraception but I agree men should be able to take it to better protect themselves.

I’ve always found it’s men who are reluctant to use a condom until I point out not doing so may well result in a child because I can’t take hormonal contraceptives.

Men's involvement in creating a child ends with ejaculation. That's why his right to an opinion ends there.
A woman's involvement in creating a child continues for 9 months and involves a lot of physical and emotional pain. That is why her right to an opinion on whether to create the child continues for 24 weeks.
And that is equality.

Both parties could - perhaps should - have used contraception.
An abortion would seem the answer to the situation.

I'll do one big reply and hope I've answered/replied to most, didn't realise it would have so many replies

I was taking the pill, have successfully been taking the pill for 11 years and never once even had a scare how ever it's not 100% effective and we did not use another form of contraception at the same time as all of the other times had not resulted in pregnancy and trusted the pill.

I am happy to have this baby on my own, I am financially stable enough to do so and have an awesome support network, the baby will be loved and cared for and not want for anything.

I was asking as a few people at work have said I should be asking for csa from him as the baby is also his responsibility. I do however believe that he does have a choice and he has chosen to not want it so wasn't planning on asking him for anything. I was wondering what the general view was from a wider range of people as I only work with men so it's only their view.

I can’t believe some people think there is no moral obligation to a life they have helped create.

@IncompleteSenten

Yes.

People can be quite stupid about this issue and one argument you hear a lot is bleating on about how women have the power and control and if a man impregnates a woman but doesn't want her to proceed with the pregnancy he should be allowed to walk away because it's really unfair that he isn't allowed to knock her unconscious and carry her down to the abortion clinic and have them whip it out before she wakes up.

The actual point is that there are three people involved. The mother. The father. The baby.

It is the rights of the child that a lot of people seem to forget when they're arguing about this

A child has the right to be supported by both the people who created it. It really is as simple as that.

This. The child has a right to support from the father. Not the mother, the child. So the circumstances between the mother and father are irrelevant. Nothing the mother does (or doesn't do) negates the child's right to support. It is independent of the mother.

I can’t believe some people think there is no moral obligation to a life they have helped create.

Society is very keen on consequence free sex for men. For some reason, plenty of women don't examine that.

@drpet49

** Rabblesthecat I go against the grain - no they should not.

Everyone (including the mother) has a choice up to 22 weeks. It may be a choice you don’t want to make but you are still making a choice the other way to keep it.

No baby conceived has to be born so I don’t see why they should have to pay if they have no say in its existence.

I agree with this 💯**

^I agree with this too.

The child has no choice though. It's not the mother's right to support, it's the child's right.

but she must accept the consequences of that choice

And equally men have to also, if they have sex.

Men are choosing to have sex, they are choosing to do that knowing there is a possibility of pregnancy.

Women, due to their biology, are able to consider whether to have the baby once pregnant. Men don't, because they don't have the same biology and don't risk a medical procedure either way.

At the end of the day though, this isn't about some or men's rights, this is about the rights of the existing child.

@Bear45

I'll do one big reply and hope I've answered/replied to most, didn't realise it would have so many replies

I was taking the pill, have successfully been taking the pill for 11 years and never once even had a scare how ever it's not 100% effective and we did not use another form of contraception at the same time as all of the other times had not resulted in pregnancy and trusted the pill.

I am happy to have this baby on my own, I am financially stable enough to do so and have an awesome support network, the baby will be loved and cared for and not want for anything.

I was asking as a few people at work have said I should be asking for csa from him as the baby is also his responsibility. I do however believe that he does have a choice and he has chosen to not want it so wasn't planning on asking him for anything. I was wondering what the general view was from a wider range of people as I only work with men so it's only their view.

Its absolutely your decision. The law says that you can pursue him for child matinance so ultimately it doesn't matter what any of us think as you have a right to do that if that's what you wish. If it was me personally and I didn't want him to have any involvement I wouldn't go for the CSA because I wouldn't want him to have anything to use in a argument for custody if he ever changed his mind but it's extremely personal and as you can see everyone will feel differently x

@PleasantBirthday

I can’t believe some people think there is no moral obligation to a life they have helped create.

Society is very keen on consequence free sex for men. For some reason, plenty of women don't examine that.

I'm keen on consequence free sex for women too but unfortunately we aren't in a place where any contraceptive is 100% effective yet.

Of course the father should pay.

@WhatWhenWhoWhy

but she must accept the consequences of that choice

And equally men have to also, if they have sex.

Men are choosing to have sex, they are choosing to do that knowing there is a possibility of pregnancy.

Women, due to their biology, are able to consider whether to have the baby once pregnant. Men don't, because they don't have the same biology and don't risk a medical procedure either way.

At the end of the day though, this isn't about some or men's rights, this is about the rights of the existing child.

But the child wouldn’t exist if aborted. That’s my point. Men and women go into sex knowing it could result in pregnancy. According to the law women can make the choice whether to keep it - fine. However what’s not fine is that a man has no say in whether to pay for it.

Consider this scenario ; both man and woman on birth control, agreed that any child as a result of failure would be aborted. However if it happens woman chooses to keep it then she should be responsible. She could have aborted it if she didn’t want it. In the OP’s case she’s financially able.

Also single women can have children with sperm donors - we don’t make the sperm donors pay do we?

If a woman wanted zero medical procedures or zero chance of anything she should not have sex. End of.

Btw in this case the man is culpable as he didn’t use protection. Howveer im talking about the general idea

I think if it's a contraceptive failure and he states at a very early stage (eg under 8 weeks when medical abortions are still possible) he doesn't want the child and you go ahead saying you are willing to raise the baby alone no you shouldn't put him on the birth certificate or claim csa

The point where a man puts his penis inside a woman’s vagina is the point where he takes responsibility for any child that is a product of that act.

Sex is not compulsory. If you do not want to take responsibility for a child then do not have sex with a woman. It’s really that simple. If men actually thought about the consequences of their actions for one second before having sex then they would not be ‘forced’ into pay for a child they don’t want.

Yes he should pay
Go through cms. My ex was so awkward they actually go into his account to take the money whether or not he likes it !!

If he’s the dad then yes he should pay something regardless of if he’s involved in baby’s life

Of course, he impregnated a woman so is liable to pay for the upbringing of his child.

I don't think he should but I think legally he has to

Of course the father should pay. The money is to raise the child he created by having sex. That child exists and needs to be looked after by the two parents who created him or her. I don't see what the possibility of abortion has to do with it, or whether the mum put the Dad's name on the birth certificate, or whether he has contact with the child, or whether mum lied about being on the pill, or whatever. That's all smoke and mirrors.

Had sex. Child born. Dad pays.

The money is about the child, and for the child, not about the circumstances of its conception or the continuation of the pregnancy.

FabianK

I’ve always thought men should be able to opt out of parental responsibility including csa payments up to a certain time.

Women can make a choice and men should be able to also.

That is more than fair.

Agreed. Just because you get pregnant you don't have to stay pregnant.

Women bringing babies into a world where they know the father won't be around and money will be tight times hard etc and all the disadvantages that brings are incredibly selfish

@MrsLarry

What about situations where the woman lies about taking contraception? The woman that's decided she wants a baby no matter what? This happens a lot more than you think.

Too bad.

@drpet49

** Rabblesthecat I go against the grain - no they should not.

Everyone (including the mother) has a choice up to 22 weeks. It may be a choice you don’t want to make but you are still making a choice the other way to keep it.

No baby conceived has to be born so I don’t see why they should have to pay if they have no say in its existence.

I agree with this 💯**

^I agree with this too.

I also agree with this.