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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

365 replies

Bear45 · 08/12/2021 18:03

As title says!
He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

OP posts:
neednotknow · 09/12/2021 16:29

It's not about men's wants but about the reality of what it will take to raise a child who's father doesn't want to be involved.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/12/2021 16:41

@FabianK

I’ve always thought men should be able to opt out of parental responsibility including csa payments up to a certain time. Women can make a choice and men should be able to also. That is more than fair.

How does this work with abusive men who want their girlfriend to get pregnant then decide before the 'certain time' cut off that actually they don't want to have any parental responsibility? The pregnant woman then has to face either an abortion of a wanted baby or raising a baby with no financial contribution from the baby's father, when she got pregnant on the basis of him saying he wanted to be a financially contributing parent? Is that 'more than fair'?

Bollindger · 09/12/2021 17:03

Men get to opt out of fatherhood by NOT having sex, or having a vasectomy.
The second they have sex they hand over the choice to carry the baby or not to the female.
If the baby is born, they have to pay child support. Unless the mother agrees to them giving up all parental rights.

HugeAckmansWife · 09/12/2021 17:18

Page 12 and another poster has rolled out the 'what if she lied about being on the pill'. Ffs. Men take responsibility for their own sperm. No woman would trust something this important and inpactful on them to a 3rd party, why would a man?? Oh yes, because might mean he enjoys it fractionally less and he knows damn well he can just fuck off and disappear if he so chooses.

PleasantBirthday · 09/12/2021 17:22

and he knows damn well he can just fuck off and disappear if he so chooses.

And there will be a whole load of people cheering him on while he does.

Saoirsesersha · 09/12/2021 17:26

No I don’t think so

BigFatLiar · 09/12/2021 17:41

another poster has rolled out the 'what if she lied about being on the pill'. Ffs. Men take responsibility for their own sperm

Lying about contraception status would I suspect turn it into a case of non consensual sex. For a woman this is believe effectively rape, for a man it would probably be assault (don't think men can legally be raped).

In these circumstances he shouldn't be expected to pay as he would have been the victim of a crime. I would go as far as to say that the baby should be taken into care/put up for adoption, if she had wanted a baby then she shouldn't profit from the crime.

You'd have trouble proving she lied though.

Candycone · 09/12/2021 17:42

of course they should. Dont want to risk a pregnancy - dont have sex.

Candycone · 09/12/2021 17:44

@BigFatLiar

another poster has rolled out the 'what if she lied about being on the pill'. Ffs. Men take responsibility for their own sperm

Lying about contraception status would I suspect turn it into a case of non consensual sex. For a woman this is believe effectively rape, for a man it would probably be assault (don't think men can legally be raped).

In these circumstances he shouldn't be expected to pay as he would have been the victim of a crime. I would go as far as to say that the baby should be taken into care/put up for adoption, if she had wanted a baby then she shouldn't profit from the crime.

You'd have trouble proving she lied though.

if the tables were turned and it was men who could take the pill, if I was certain that I didn't want a baby i wouldnt take anyones word for it.
Waxonwaxoff0 · 09/12/2021 17:47

@BigFatLiar

another poster has rolled out the 'what if she lied about being on the pill'. Ffs. Men take responsibility for their own sperm

Lying about contraception status would I suspect turn it into a case of non consensual sex. For a woman this is believe effectively rape, for a man it would probably be assault (don't think men can legally be raped).

In these circumstances he shouldn't be expected to pay as he would have been the victim of a crime. I would go as far as to say that the baby should be taken into care/put up for adoption, if she had wanted a baby then she shouldn't profit from the crime.

You'd have trouble proving she lied though.

Or he could just take responsibility for his own contraception, radical idea I know. If you're dumb enough to rely on someone else when it comes to something so huge like contraception and potential pregnancy, you're an idiot.
Slobberstops · 09/12/2021 17:49

Bigfatliar. Not part of the adoption triangle I am guessing. What a crass and badly conceived idea.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/12/2021 18:00

@BigFatLiar

In these circumstances he shouldn't be expected to pay as he would have been the victim of a crime. I would go as far as to say that the baby should be taken into care/put up for adoption, if she had wanted a baby then she shouldn't profit from the crime.

As someone adopted, can I just say what an absolutely disgusting thing to say this is? Fuck me. Think before you post.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 09/12/2021 18:03

@BigFatLiar

You'd punish a child with a life in care and only potentially (never definitely) being adopted, because of their mothers decision making? When they may otherwise be a perfectly competent mother? Leave the state to pay for that baby? Leave that baby at the mercy of the care system? You really think that was a remotely sensible idea? Hopefully you can see on reflection that it's a disgusting one.

Ghostsintheshelf · 09/12/2021 18:04

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-cleared-judges-say-lying-18653327

This absolute prince lied about having had a vasectomy to get a woman to sleep with him without a condom. Was convicted of rape for it, but the conviction was then quashed because the judge felt that didn't invalidate her consent.

getsanta · 09/12/2021 18:04

@BigFatLiar

what have you just written?!?

WomanWithDiamondEarring · 09/12/2021 18:39

I wouldn't like the tables to be turned though and a woman forced to go through with a pregnancy because the man wants a child and she doesn't.

BigYellowHat · 09/12/2021 18:48

His baby, he needs to put his hand in his pocket. His time to prevent this was either to refuse to have sex with you or at least wear a condom. He’s had his fun and now there’s responsibilities to face up to and he needs to stop acting like a petulant child. Straight to the CMS once baby is born.

HugeAckmansWife · 09/12/2021 20:35

Thing is, biological fact can't be changed. Females have to have the physical burden of pregnancy, birth, post partum injury etc and / or the trauma of abortion. It's not a level playing field and cant be made so. A man being 'forced' to part with a small % of his income for about 20% of his entire life is pretty minimal in comparison and is certainly not comparable to a woman being made to continue with an unwanted pregnancy. You can't do like for like because the biology is unalterable, so men I'm afraid, should just bloody well suck this one up and accept that they take as much care as they can, up to and including the snip or abstinence but should it happen, then yes, they're on the hook for a bit (except in the UK they're not really as the cms are so crap).

waitingpatientlyforspring · 09/12/2021 20:56

@Rabblesthecat

I go against the grain - no they should not.

Everyone (including the mother) has a choice up to 22 weeks. It may be a choice you don’t want to make but you are still making a choice the other way to keep it.

No baby conceived has to be born so I don’t see why they should have to pay if they have no say in its existence.

I'm with you with this probably unpopular opinion.

If contraception failed as is usually the case, and the man makes it clear right away that they don't want the child then the mother goes into the pregnancy knowing full well they will be a single mother. They don't have to continue with the pregnancy.

I especially think this when the pregnancy happens between people in a casual or new relationship.

My husbands friend had a one night stand years ago. They used a condom but she still got pregnant. He didn't want the baby and she didn't really want him part of the baby's life. She married when baby was young and her dh brought baby up as his own. Friend still had to pay the child maintenance for 18 years. Personally, I don't think this is right.

getsanta · 09/12/2021 20:58

If contraception failed as is usually the case, and the man makes it clear right away that they don't want the child then the mother goes into the pregnancy knowing full well they will be a single mother. They don't have to continue with the pregnancy.

Thankfully this isn't the law.

getsanta · 09/12/2021 20:59

I find this thread so upsetting and outrageous.

Theunamedcat · 09/12/2021 21:03

@HugeAckmansWife

Thing is, biological fact can't be changed. Females have to have the physical burden of pregnancy, birth, post partum injury etc and / or the trauma of abortion. It's not a level playing field and cant be made so. A man being 'forced' to part with a small % of his income for about 20% of his entire life is pretty minimal in comparison and is certainly not comparable to a woman being made to continue with an unwanted pregnancy. You can't do like for like because the biology is unalterable, so men I'm afraid, should just bloody well suck this one up and accept that they take as much care as they can, up to and including the snip or abstinence but should it happen, then yes, they're on the hook for a bit (except in the UK they're not really as the cms are so crap).
14% for one child 16% for two reviewed annually which means he can go back to work then lose his job begone the next review and potentially not have to pay extra
MultiStorey · 09/12/2021 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Northernparent68 · 09/12/2021 21:32

Ironically The argument if he did n’t want a child he should n’t have had sex is similar to the anti abortion argument.

PandaParty · 09/12/2021 21:35

@Northernparent68

Ironically The argument if he did n’t want a child he should n’t have had sex is similar to the anti abortion argument.
Presumably that's because men can't access abortion. Their only 100% way of ensuring they don't end up a father is to not have sex.
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