Page 10 | To think father should pay csa even if he doesn't want the baby

Bear45 · 2021-12-08T18:03:03+00:00

As title says! He wanted me to have an abortion and I've not heard off him for 3 weeks now. I'm 13 weeks, obviously it's a way off but just wondering what peoples opinions are

Bigassbeebuzzbuzz · 08/12/2021 21:33

He made a child, he should have to pay for the child. End of discussion. Men have 3 choices, abstinence, vasectomy or condoms.
Would love to see the figures of how many poor men are being harassed by the cms because of a condom failure

Indoctro · 08/12/2021 21:36

So if you didn't want the baby but he did would you if kept it for him.?

I don't think he should as it's your choice to have the baby so you need to be in a financial position to be able to have it

I think men have no say in keeping a baby or not and that isn't fair

Personally if it was me I would keep baby and take full financial responsibility for it myself

CiaoForDiNiaoSaur · 08/12/2021 21:39

@getsanta how is the tax payer covering the difference? My ex pays £0 towards our DC. If by some miracle he suddenly grew a conscience and decided to pay towards the dc he wanted my benefits would not decrease. I would cost "the tax payer" the same as I do now.

Yes its a fucking disgrace that men can walk away so easily. But the fact they do doesn't change how much single parents can claim in benefits.

MultiStorey · 08/12/2021 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TractorAndHeadphones · 08/12/2021 21:43

@Indoctro

So if you didn't want the baby but he did would you if kept it for him.?

I don't think he should as it's your choice to have the baby so you need to be in a financial position to be able to have it

I think men have no say in keeping a baby or not and that isn't fair

Personally if it was me I would keep baby and take full financial responsibility for it myself

Which incidentally is what the OP very responsibly is doing...although she has created this thread because 'other people' have said she should claim CSA

AlmostAJillSandwich · 08/12/2021 21:58

I don't agree with the "just don't have sex" posters.

Healthy, fulfilling adult relationships where both partners are happy, that don't involve sex, are very rare. Sex is far more often done for pleasure, intimacy and bonding, etc, than it is to make a baby.

Realistically, who is going to commit to a sexless relationship willingly, even from the female side, when it is so often a huge part of a healthy, happy relationship?

What we need, is more contraceptive options for males. It isn't as easy as "get a vasectomy", they dont just refer anyone, plus what if he wants kids, just not at this point in his life/with this partner? It's a surgery, that isn't easy to reverse and be successful. As for condoms, they can break, slip off, and for many greatly reduce the sensations.

Should a woman be forced to have a baby she doesn't want when contraception fails for her? No, of course not, so neither should a man who tried to have "safe" sex but was one of the "accidents".

If an abortion is still available, then the guy should get the option to walk away from all parental/financial responsibility if he doesn't want the baby, but she chooses to continue the pregnancy knowing it will be as the single financial provider.

TractorAndHeadphones · 08/12/2021 21:58

@MultiStorey there seems to be a view that whatever the woman wants goes and if she wants the child she should keep it no questions asked.
Leaving aside the question of CSA (which isn't counted in benefits, so would cost the taxpayer money anyway) raising a child is hard work and you can't force a man to be involved, even if he paid.

Why is saying that there should be a consideration about the practicalities so unacceptable? A woman may have 'feelings' but if they can't give the child a good life it's unfair to it.

TheCloudBotherer · 08/12/2021 21:58

We've become inured to the fact that men frequently father children and then, while being aware of their existence, make no effort at all to be part of their lives. Whenever this is framed as a problem, it's always framed as the taxpayer having to pick up the bill for absent fathers. (And that's if the father is mentioned at all. The majority of the time, it's single mothers getting the flack.)

That so many men are seemingly happy to have no relationship with the children they've fathered is almost never picked up as an issue. Because you've got to be a real cunt to do it. But it's so common that it's not though of as unusual at all.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 08/12/2021 22:03

To clarify, by "safe" i mean where any form of contraception is knowingly used, be it condoms, or female based such as her being on the pill or having an iud/implant/depo shot etc.

SethWho · 08/12/2021 22:11

@BeeDavis

I personally wouldn’t keep a baby if the father wasn’t interested. But that’s me 😵‍💫

I kept mine. Really like her. 👍

HugeAckmansWife · 08/12/2021 22:15

tractor I don't understand your point about benefits and costing the tax payer? Leaving aside for a moment the fact that I work ft, receive no benefits other than CB and pay tax myself, the amount received (or not) in CMS has no bearing on benefits that may be received by a lower earning or sp needing childcare. Also, you keep maintaining that abortion is a choice. Actually, for many people it wouldn't be. Just because it's physically possible doesn't mean it's always an option... Or can you not imagine ever being asked to do something you would find utterly wrong? Two people make a child, either through carelessness or genuine error. At that point, yes, the biology intervenes to give the woman one additional option. Lets not forget that there are thousands of non paying absent fathers out there who don't have too much trouble evading the cms even having been a present and involved father before, so forgive me if I'm not bleeding sympathy for the poor menz who get 'caught' this way. They still know, ultimately, they could just piss off, refuse a paternity test and zip would be done.

Bizawit · 08/12/2021 22:17

@Stiffcondomhat

If you really don't want a baby don't have sex (applies to men and women) If you don't want to continue a pregnancy, have an abortion (only applies to women as men can't get pregnant) If you have a baby you are financially liable for their upkeep, whether you wanted it or not and whether you have contact or not (Because a baby is a human not a pay per view tv channel).

Excellently put 👌🏻

PrincessNutella · 08/12/2021 22:19

The money is for the benefit of the child, so of course you should get it.

getsanta · 08/12/2021 22:31

Should a woman be forced to have a baby she doesn't want when contraception fails for her? No, of course not, so neither should a man who tried to have "safe" sex but was one of the "accidents".

Thankfully this isn't the law.

PeterPomegranate · 09/12/2021 03:36

[quote MrsLarry]@peterPomegranate

So, what if the man wanted to keep the baby but the woman didn't?[/quote]
My starting point is that only the pregnant woman is a decision maker on her pregnancy because it’s her body. She can choose to involve other people in the decision (eg the father) but she doesn’t have to.

whiteroseredrose · 09/12/2021 05:43

This is something that I've drummed into DS since his early teens - think very hard about who you have sex with because if she gets pregnant you have no say whatsoever and may be stuck with her in your life forever. Obviously there is the 20 year financial commitment too.

For DD the choice to abort would be entirely hers. She need never see him again.

It isn't fair really, but it's biology.

Ghostsintheshelf · 09/12/2021 06:20

"It isn't fair really, but it's biology."

This is it really, isn't it?
I imagine most teenage girls don't think it's very fair that they're the ones who have to have periods, which can be painful and inconvenient.
I imagine where there is a pregnancy that neither the man or woman wants, the woman doesn't think it's that fair that she's the one who has to go through the medical procedure to abort.
And where the child is wanted, I imagine a lot of women don't find it fair that they're the ones who have to go through the pain of pregnancy and birth, possibly ending up with life-changing injuries. Or that as the one who can breastfeed they will often be the one waking in the night. That their career will be the one that takes the hit.
I know I don't find it that fair that if a man attacks me, I'm basically at his mercy whereas my husband would have a good chance of fighting him off.

I think as women, we get used to the limits that our own biology inflicts on us. Abortion (in the UK, at least) happens to be one of the issues where men's options are limited by their own biology. Once they ejaculate their sperm into a woman, it can't be up to them. But once their child is in the world, they ought to be providing financially for her/him however they feel about the mother not complying with their wishes.
And let's not pretend that a huge amount of men don't comply and never pay a penny for children that they actually did want but then abandon.

HugeAckmansWife · 09/12/2021 06:53

Exactly what ghosts said. It really feels like this is one instance where men have slightly less power now, are at the mercy of a female's decision and the outrage about it is interesting. For centuries women have had basically no cards to play. Now we do and it's 'not faaaaaiiir'.

Glassofshloer · 09/12/2021 07:18

@HugeAckmansWife

Exactly what ghosts said. It really feels like this is one instance where men have slightly less power now, are at the mercy of a female's decision and the outrage about it is interesting. For centuries women have had basically no cards to play. Now we do and it's 'not faaaaaiiir'.

I agree.

I can see objectively it’s not fair, but 🤷🏼‍♀️ life isn’t fair is it? As we women very well know…

dementedpixie · 09/12/2021 07:30

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove

If the mother names him on the birth certificate then yes he should pay. If she doesn't then no he shouldn't.

She can't name him if he doesn't attend the appointment with her (if unmarried). You can't just stick someone's name down in their absence!

caringcarer · 09/12/2021 07:43

He will need to contribute to cost of baby, irregardless of whether he wants it or not, until it is 18. This is what I have drilled into my 2 sons. You get someone pregnant you pay for 18 years. He should have been more careful about conception.

caringcarer · 09/12/2021 07:46

No reason men can't use 2 condoms in case one splits.

caringcarer · 09/12/2021 07:49

@outofcyan, makes no difference if man is on birth certificate or not he still has to pay for 18 years.

tigger1001 · 09/12/2021 08:25

These kinds of threads are always an interesting read. Abortion is always suggested however dare to say on other threads that you would consider abortion or have had one and you face a backlash for that too. It seems like it's easy to criticise women for expecting men to take responsibility for the life created when they could abort and equally easy to subsequently criticise women for aborting.

The reality is if you have sex there is a chance of a baby. And if a baby is created then the dad doesn't get to just walk away from that responsibility. They don't get to casually say oh well I don't want parental rights so you are on your own.

OutOfCyan · 09/12/2021 08:50

@caringcarer I was responding to a post where someone was advocating that only men on birth certificates should pay.