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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour are shite. Discuss

183 replies

Effibreast · 08/12/2021 13:52

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

OP posts:
Effibreast · 08/12/2021 22:36

@portandchocolate listen to PMQs maybe ?

OP posts:
SexyNeckbeard · 08/12/2021 22:38

So you really don't have any actual opinions of your own? When I ask you why, in your opinion, this is the most oppressive piece of legislation since "the war" you can't answer. I mean you said it, you should be able to explain why, right?

Just lapping up the lefty propaganda and spitting it straight back out on MN without an original thought of your own.

portandchocolate · 08/12/2021 22:39

[quote Effibreast]@portandchocolate listen to PMQs maybe ?[/quote]
Yep. Always. Thanks

Effibreast · 08/12/2021 22:42

@portandchocolate If he's a buffoon why would you cheer him on getting one over on Starmer ? A liar, cheat, spaffer of millions and you are thrilled by him showing Starmer up ? And your family criticise Starmer for doing his job...Hmm

OP posts:
Effibreast · 08/12/2021 22:43

Lol thought not. Might be a tad more au fait with public opinion.

OP posts:
portandchocolate · 08/12/2021 22:46

[quote Effibreast]@portandchocolate If he's a buffoon why would you cheer him on getting one over on Starmer ? A liar, cheat, spaffer of millions and you are thrilled by him showing Starmer up ? And your family criticise Starmer for doing his job...Hmm[/quote]
Because Starmer is as clueless and embarrassing. If for one incredible moment he actually had to make a decision or demonstrate the leadership he keeps bleating on about he'd run a mile

Maybe he could start by sorting out his deputy?

Effibreast · 08/12/2021 22:55

@SexyNeckbeard lefty propaganda ? Ok Hmm Monbiot explains it far better than I ever could. Why would I paraphrase it ? I agree with him.

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 08/12/2021 22:55

I honestly don't think Starmer is a buffoon.

And he's not in the same (terrible) class as Johnson.

I think most politicians are not in the same (awful) class as Johnson.

That is why I posted the link to Dominic Grieve. What Grieve is saying is incredibly important.

He says that Johnson traduces the role of Prime Minister and makes a travesty of government - and diminishes trust and respect.

This is absolutely my view.

I think Johnson is a corrosive toxin. He is profoundly damaging.

Most politicians - of all parties - are not like Johnson.

He is profoundly damaging.

I find it worrying when anyone would lump Starmer in with Johnson.

They are not alike.

Frankly, many Conservatives are nothing like Johnson.

I agree wholeheartedly with Grieve on this - he's a damaging, damaging class apart. He should never, ever have been allowed to become PM.

Anyway, if that sounds like, 'But the Tories ...', I'm sorry.

I don't mean, 'But the Tories ...'
I mean, 'Johnson is something quite damaging and different. It's a tragedy he became PM.'

Please don't judge all politicians by his standard. Many politicians, from all Parties, are radically different to Johnson.

And most are not 'buffoons'. They are often very qualified people. Many of whom are committed, dedicated and have acquired high levels in the fields they worked in before entering politics.
Which many of them entered because of a notion of public service.

That's true across the House.

And I find it bizarre that there is so very little respect for politicians.

It's a job that affects lives.

If you hold those people in so little regard, then enter politics yourself. Act to effect better.

I suspect contact with politicians and politics might change your perspective.

I find this cynicism, this willingness to trivialise, terribly, horribly corrosive.

I do feel Johnson has contributed to this - and I despair.

But politics is just far, far too important to allow judgment to evaporate in an all-encompassing cynicism. Or to mask a fundamental laziness as regards political knowledge and engagement behind a mask of ridicule.

It's damaging. And at its very worst, it ends with inviting violence against our MPs.

We have to change that culture. And that begins with very firmly distinguishing between those who behave with probity and seriousness when in office and those who don't - and saving our deepest opprobrium for those that don't act with the standards we deserve to see followed.

thecatfromjapan · 08/12/2021 22:56

Sorry.
That was a real thread de-rail.

But I have a real bee in my bonnet about this.

SwumMum · 08/12/2021 23:01

I voted Labour in multiple elections and felt strongly I always would....

I then heard about and saw their policies around self id and women's rights, and thought again. I've since watched as MPs like Ben Bradshaw support the students in the Sussex scandal, and argue against the BBC publishing an article about lesbians being raped. And as John McDonnell applauded Ellie Mae O Hagan for her clarity and delivery when stating, "no one knows what a man or woman is." And as Taiwo Owatemi wrote that ridiculous letter ..

I'm no Tory voter, never will be. But I'm afraid I won't vote Labour either.

I am a women. I care about women. I need a party who understands the fundamental importance of biological reality in life and law. There isn't one. I am politically homeless.

Effibreast · 08/12/2021 23:03

What's he said that's embarrassing ? More embarrassing than Johnson ? Surely Johnson is more clueless, he's a laughing stock now ?
Have you noticed how much the left hate him for getting rid of Corbyn, expelling various far left groups, sacking Corbyn acolytes ? Even the Mail like him now, recently did a comment in the daily star or the sun.
I'm no fan boy of him but he and his new shadow cabinet are better than Johnson, Raab, Patel...which isn't difficult

OP posts:
SexyNeckbeard · 08/12/2021 23:04

[quote Effibreast]@SexyNeckbeard lefty propaganda ? Ok Hmm Monbiot explains it far better than I ever could. Why would I paraphrase it ? I agree with him.[/quote]
Took an awful lot of effort to drag any sort of source out of you while you freely presented his opinions as your own. I suggest you don't paraphrase because you don't understand.

Anyway this is going the way it always does with an ill informed labour supporter and I can't be arsed any more.

TheABC · 08/12/2021 23:54

@thecatfromjapan

The problem with distinguishing the politicians that act with probity from those who don't is that there's no effective outside mechanism for disciplining them. It's dependent on the leader of the Party and if that leader does not want to withdraw the whip, that person is effectively unsackable. The police rarely want to investigate complaints against MPs - which is understandable - but it means they get away with rampant cronyism, nepotism and corruption. That's before we look at the problems of running MP's offices, (no central HR?) their working hours, pay or expectations in the constituency. Everything is run on a gentleman's agreement and the assumption that people 'will do the right thing.' It's a complete mess.

Look at how many times Johnson has lied to Parliament and got away with breath-taking breaches of privilege. Everyone calls him Teflon-coated, but the truth is, we are stuck with him for another two years. The only thing that can dislodge him before then is the 1922 committee or criminal proceedings. I can't actually think of another job with the same tenured security.

sst1234 · 09/12/2021 00:26

OP is a double bluffing plant from Tory HQ, doing a grand job of turning people further away from the left with their sneering, patronising, attitude.

littledrummergirl · 09/12/2021 09:30

I watched pmq yesterday, keir kicked off but didn't really push the issue. Ian Blackford did brilliantly though.
I should be a natural Labour supporter- historically my family have been Labour, I've been a union rep ensuring workers rights have been included but right now I feel politically homeless.

I believe that it's important to stop the degradation of women's rights and safe spaces. Labour are not aligned with me on this.
I don't like the idea of vaccine passports and having no go areas if you don't have the correct vaccination status. Although the cabinet are pushing this through the back benchers are providing opposition. Labour are much more vocal about wanting restrictions on our lives. Again, not aligned with me.

I hope that either Labour as a party grow up or thar the conservatives reclaim their party. Someone needs to hold the government to account for bringing in measures that haven't been given parliamentary consent.

Sadly Labour aren't up to the challenge.

NdujaWannaDance · 09/12/2021 09:32

It's true though, there is no viable opposition at the moment.

It's says a lot about the state of British politics that this government is the best we can do right now. And I'm a Tory.

DdraigGoch · 09/12/2021 09:36

@Effibreast

To counter the bs that labour are crap I suggested that Lisa Nandy as minister for levelling up is far superior to Gove. That Emily Thornberry, Chris Bryant and Thangam Debonnaire are as good as, if not better than their opposites and are hardly loony lefties That Starmer may be dull and sensible but is as honest and decent as Theresa May of John Major. But the morally bankrupt shower in government at the moment, that has destroyed multiple industries - mining, fishing, steel, that has stripped the country's infrastructure to the bone, lied, fiddled millions, is somehow better than the Labour Party. If anyone bothered to do research, they'd see that the party was attempting to change and appeal to the aspirational w/c, business owners and young people too. Rather people just repeat tired old cliches.
Labour still won't admit to knowing what a woman is.
DdraigGoch · 09/12/2021 09:48

You could vote for the green party if that's an option

@AliveAndSleeping what's the use of that? They won't acknowledge biological reality either, and just look at the mess they've made of running Brighton.

KimmyKimdoo · 09/12/2021 10:58

I’m really bitterly disappointed with Labour at the moment. As a woman, I feel that they don’t represent me at all. I cannot vote for them at the moment.

Thelnebriati · 09/12/2021 11:15

I'm not voting for Labour, they are the party of choice for people who arent actually Socialist but dont want tbe be labelled as neoliberal or right wing.

  • They've embraced neoliberal policies such as identity politics to the point where they are now prepared to pretend they dont know what a woman is.
  • They had one job to do; be an effective left wing opposition. Instead they have supported the tories in policies including Univeral Credit and austerity, and self ID which has brought us to the point where we now have mixed sex prisons, school toilets, psychiatric units and hospital wards.
This is having a real effect on women and girls, right now.

That doesnt mean I'm voting tory. Thats not how this works.

RepentMotherfucker · 09/12/2021 17:15

@ilovesooty

This is not his/her first rodeo

What is that supposed to mean @RepentMotherfucker?

That you are a person who posts in support of trans activism. A pp said that you hadn't actually stated your view on that aspect of Labour policy and I was pointing out that your views had been made clear on many many other threads.
ilovesooty · 09/12/2021 21:03

I've stayed consistently that I don't think this issue is my primary consideration when deciding who to vote for and I cannot comprehend "at least they know what a woman is" as a justification for voting Tory.

Is that what you mean by posting "in support of trans activism"?

If that's what you mean you could say so instead of making snide comments about rodeos.

And no need for the his/ her jibe either.

Ionlydomassiveones · 09/12/2021 21:54

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

ilovesooty · 09/12/2021 22:03

And I don't believe the Tories give a shit about women anyway.

Tabbacus · 09/12/2021 22:26

@ilovesooty

And I don't believe the Tories give a shit about women anyway.
I don't think they do either, but they understand and acknowledge what a woman is before they shit on them.
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