Labour are shite. Discuss

[Effibreast]

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

I won’t vote labour because I will be worse off under their government. Simple as that. My taxes will rise. I will have to pay 20% more for my childrens education (because I had to pull her out of her state school due to her being inadequately taught). And plus I’m more in line with the centre right ethos of working for a living as opposed to the government doing everything for you.

Do I like Boris? No. I think he’s a bit crap and needs to resign. Do I think labour would have steered us better through this pandemic? No. I think whoever was in charge would have struggled to steer the country through this pandemic.

But I will vote for reasons of which governement party would serve my needs best. As I’m sure every single person in this country would.

@Forion well give us an idea what you want ? Corbyn 70s dinosaur steeped in Socialism didn’t win any elections, ridiculed by most but a minority. Blair blue labour, won 3 elections, many progressive policies like minimum wage etc. What do you want labour to be ? It can’t be what it used to be because the industrial unionised working class doesn’t really exist. People are aspirational, see tories as representing that. Labour can’t just represent the downtrodden. And as far as I know the Tory party has members of all types, poshos, salt of the earth w/c and m/c too. Why can’t labour have a mix ? What on earth is wrong with having educated mc types, idealistic youth and aspirational wc and the left behinds. Fwiw I’m as wc as they come. Live in a red wall area.

Who said labour supporters wanted the government to support them ?
So we are all benefit scroungers
then ? How can a party full of middle class educated liberal lefty professionals be at the same time full of benefit claiming layabouts who can’t support themselves ? make your mind up

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

Lots of the people who are saying that Labour and Keir Starmer are rubbish aren't defending the Tories at all though. Many of them loathe the Tories, and the reason they are so furious about Labour being shit is that they desperately want to be able to vote for a Labour party that isn't shit. I won't vote Tory, but I won't vote Labour (or Lib Dem) either. I'll be spoiling my ballot paper for the first time.

IMO Kier is good at pointing out other peoples mistakes but struggles to explain what he'd do differently or better.

He doesn't seem to have any passionate views which doesn't bode well in a leader.

@lazylinguist

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

Lots of the people who are saying that Labour and Keir Starmer are rubbish aren't defending the Tories at all though. Many of them loathe the Tories, and the reason they are so furious about Labour being shit is that they desperately want to be able to vote for a Labour party that isn't shit. I won't vote Tory, but I won't vote Labour (or Lib Dem) either. I'll be spoiling my ballot paper for the first time.

You could vote for the green party if that's an option

I'm not claiming that Labour can't be mixed or are there just to represent the downtrodden, but the class divisions in this country are getting worse and it's blighting peoples lives. I want to see a fairer society where workers can afford heating whilst they work from home, a safe delivery of their baby and trains that are affordable and reliable buses. Instead, we're all fighting like rats in a sack over GP appointments. I also want womens rights and single sex spaces upheld and young peoples bodies protected from hormone blockers and life changing surgeries because they'll get to 30 and totally regret their previous choices, but it'll be too late. And I don't want rapists in female prisons.

Labour can't manage this, so I'm out.

The most corrupt government in living memory, led by a pathological liar, embroiled in another huge scandal today, and someone starts a thread about how shit Labour is. Discuss

@Bustarold

The most corrupt government in living memory, led by a pathological liar, embroiled in another huge scandal today, and someone starts a thread about how shit Labour is. Discuss

Is whether someone had a party or not really a huge scandal?

Labour aren't an effective opposition this is why people are criticising them. They should have buried Johnson by now. No excuses. Starmer is like a wet weekend in Blackpool.

@UsernameInTheTown

Until Labour re learn what constitutes a woman they can fuck off. As can your 'discuss'.

That about sums it up. We were talking earlier today about how we'd vote, and it's a spoiled ballot paper from me next time.

@MorningStarling

Labour are shite. That's pretty much the end of discussion right there, but there are lots of reasons why. 1) They can't elect an electable leader. Either they don't have any electable leaders or their voters are idiots. 2) They're massive hypocrites. For everything the Tories do wrong, there is something on the Labour side that is just as bad. Tories have second jobs, people elected as Labour MPs have to be expelled for being convicted of harassment. The fact they expel MPs doesn't wipe the slate clean - their selection procedure must be appalling for them to have been elected in the first place. 3) Tony Blair did more damage to the country than any PM before or since. It's hard to forget shit like that. 4) Leadership again. Sir Kier Starmer does not come across well AT ALL. Labour is supposed to be for ordinary people, not knights of the realm or hotshot lawyers. 5) Jess Phillips, Dianne Abbott - the Labour MPs you recognize come across as deeply unpleasant people. The deputy leader repeatedly calls her opponents scum. They don't seem like reasonable people. At least the Tories are polite to you and just shaft you behind your back. Labour look like they want to kick the shit out of you. 6) Iraq war. 7) Antisemitism. 8) Labour scrapped student loans and introduced tuition fees. 9) What are their actual policies? I mean, Corbyn was hard left, but what does Starmer actually propose to do? He is always wise after the event but never puts forward constructive, workable plans. You might say "they're opposition innit" but if they want to be elected they simply have to demonstrate how they would run the country better - how can we have all the services we need properly funded without tax hikes or borrowing. 10) The constant focus on distractions and irrelevancies. Barnard Castle, lockdown party, who paid for redecorating - none of these things matter in the grand scheme of things. Constantly harping on about them just shows that Labour are unable to pick valid faults in the things that really matter. 11) Today at PMQs Starmer was trying to imply that the Tories laugh at Covid patients dying. Either he's deliberately being rather sick and twisted, or he is so incompetent he doesn't realise how bad he looked.

To those who ask why "Labour are shite" is an acceptable answer to "how do you still support the Tories" there are two key points. One, you don't have to support the Tories to think they are the best of a terrible bunch. If the Tories are like someone shitting on your doorstep, Labour are like someone with diarrhoea doing it. I don't want either but ones easier to deal with. Two, it makes zero sense to argue people should vote Labour because the Tories are awful when not accepting that Tories persist in voting Tory because Labour are terrible.

This is spot on.

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

It's possible to say Labour is shit, Keir Starmer is rubbish and the Labour party is doing a piss poor job in opposition without being a Conservative voter. I do hope that's not too complicated for you. Were you hoping for another bun fight where you get to feel morally superior to and insult people who do vote conservative. Why can people not understand this is not a way to win hearts and minds.

Like many others I'm politically homeless. I just need one party, any party that isn't the Conservatives to know what a woman is. If a credible candidate does not emerge in my constituency before the next election then I may just vote Tory for the first time.

You could vote for the green party if that's an option

They don't know what a woman is either. The less said about David Challenor the better but they did not come out of that looking good.

I just spoil my ballot paper.

@Forion that's policy ? Turning men into women ? Really ? Which government has enabled trans women to go into female prisons ?

Labour are currently shite. I could not, in good conscience, give them my vote at the moment

I will never vote Tory and do not support their values.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive. Being of the opinion that Labour are hopeless (worse than hopeless) in their current form does not imply support for the Tories.

If you are using the term woke pejoratively doubt you ever voted labour.

This is nonsense and is exactly the kind of gate-keeeping and ridiculousness that is losing Labour their traditional voters. I have never voted for any other party than Labour. To me, “woke” is shorthand for champagne socialism, virtue signalling and forced speech. It’s not about addressing real inequality or caring for the most vulnerable in society. It’s not about levelling the playing field. Those are traditional Labour values.

Until Labour can admit that they do, in fact, know what a woman is, they cannot be trusted to advance women’s rights or protect us. How are they going to tackle male on female violence when they can’t define the term “female”? I refuse to believe that Kier Starmer doesn’t know that only a woman can have a uterus. He’s an intelligent man. And if he’s too weak to be able to state a simple fact when the question is put to him for fear of backlash, he’s an incredibly weak leader who cannot represent my needs or my daughter’s needs, and certainly can’t represent the needs of the most vulnerable women in society.

Thangam Debbonaire. What a fantastic name. An excellent MP as well.

Nobody can compete with Mr Johnson, he’s the best PM we’ve ever had.

You could vote for the green party if that's an option

Not unless they know what a woman is. And, as far as I'm aware, they don't. I actually joined the Green Party in order to be able to vote in their leadership election (and hopefully then be able to vote Green), but the candidate I wanted didn't get in.

@FOJN why are they shit' ? Apart from trans issues. Surely we go off manifestos which as yet haven't been published before we call things 'shit' ? The problem is that people spout generalised comments with no evidence. Hence the 'labour despise the wc' trope.

I find the timing here a little odd. Prompted by the Christmas party scandal (the reaction to which won’t be captured in the polls yet), I looked at opinion polling, for the first time in a long time, today.

Looks like Labour, who have spent much of the last decade lagging behind the Torries (often by a large margin) are now running neck and neck with them. I’d expect that the Christmas party incident will have some degree of impact over the next few weeks too.

Even if they are crap, I think there’s a real chance they’ll be the next government (something which hasn’t seemed likely since Blair’s last election).

Obviously a lot to happen between now and the next GE, but they seem to be moving in the right direction (even if that’s more a result of Conservative incompetence than anything else).

All major parties are currently shite, propped up by a shite electoral system.

I would love to vote for a good independent candidate strong on local issues without any of the party baggage.

@Outlyingtrout thought woke meant tolerance and acceptance ? Considering labour are never going to be given the opportunity to demonstrate their desire to achieve class equality or care for the most vulnerable at this rate it's a bit of a moot point.
Thought Corbyn was a true socialist as in 'for the many, not the few', was he not the right kind of
socialist ? Tbh as soon as you talk of champagne socialists and virtue signalling that demonstrates exactly where you stand. Straight out the daily mail.