Labour are shite. Discuss

[Effibreast]

Stock answer to defend the tories is 'Labour are shite, Keir Starmer is rubbish, there's no opposition'.

Threads like this are never in good faith. It's just another opportunity for the OP and people like her to tell everyone how stupid and evil they are for not wanting to vote Labour and sneering at all their reasons and do a "But the Tories..."

Nothing ever changes or gets achieved.

Have a

Have a meme as well.

That meme just about sums it up.

Tbf I could never bring myself to vote Tory but there isn't a party I could vote for right now. I hate how moral Labour think they are while ignoring the bulling and abuse of anyone who disagrees with them

Is this post by a communications director for the Labour Party?

I would vote for a turd in a hat if I thought it would get the Tories out of power.

@ilovesooty

I can't imagine how anyone who seriously claims to care about society's most vulnerable as a whole can consider voting Tory.

Exactly. What have they done for women? Sent thousands upon thousands of us to food banks to feed our kids. Gee, thanks.

@RepentMotherfucker unless I've missed a post, @ilovesooty hasn't actually said whether they support the Labour and gender ideology. This was the initial premise of the thread. That thinking Labour are a shower of shite is a defence of the Tories. In actual fact, Labour being a shower of shite has left many of us politically homeless. It's not an 'either or' situation. I don't have to support Labour or the Tories. I really hate the fact that voicing disapproval of Labour is interpreted to signal automatic support for the Tories, so I wouldn't assume the opposite for someone else.

Like @ilovesooty, I cannot make sense of people who reject Labour based on the way they have thrown women and children - and especially vulnerable women - under the bus, but who will vote Tory as an alternative. I don’t understand how you can care about vulnerable women when it’s Labour trampling all over them, but be prepared to vote for the Tories who do the same thing anyway just dressed up differently (and a whole lot more to disadvantage poor and vulnerable people besides).

For those saying Labour = more tax ... do they?

I'd say indirect taxes have risen under the Conservatives. For a start, we're paying for Brexit.

Real-terms investment in many things has been cut - so you end up supplementing depleted public services from your own income - often inadequately.

And social care will take your home.

The great thing about tax and a public sector is that the costs of things like health, education and social care are shared and end up being cheaper.

I suspect Labour will approach the next GE with a pledge to keep taxes low - and they'll be so worried about the electorate, they'll stick to that.

But investment will go into public services - not dodgy contracts to cronies. And I'll point out that those dodgy contracts have often been awarded because of a commitment to an ideology of privatisation over pragmatism, and a desperate desire to keep donors on board.

I won’t vote labour because I will be worse off under their government. Simple as that. My taxes will rise. I will have to pay 20% more for my childrens education (because I had to pull her out of her state school due to her being inadequately taught)

What a shame the state schools are so shit under the Tories that you have to spend so much on private schooling.
Anyone with half a brain would vote them out so we can have better schools for our children. They're clearly doing a terrible job looking after education.

@Outlyingtrout agree. I've actually said this before but you've said it better. Many of the worst tory policies hit poor wc women and their families the most like the loss of £20 universal credit or the loss of legal aid, cuts to public services. Tbf if you listen to people, esp women, on the radio today, they are condemning Johnson and the Tories. Former tory voters no longer many of them. No one is mentioning Labour's stance on trans issues.

@ScreamingMeMe

Have a meme as well.

Hmm.

I'm not sure it's Labour who think 'you people are scum.'

And, for what it's worth, I don't think many members of any political Parties think the U.K. is awful and the people are scum.

I'm tired of these lazy jibes.

As I repeatedly say, I really like the U.K. I love the people I live with. I respect them.

And that is why - precisely why - Johnson actually causes me grief.

I think we deserve better.

I cannot make sense of people who reject Labour based on the way they have thrown women and children - and especially vulnerable women - under the bus, but who will vote Tory as an alternative.

I'm happy to explain why I'm thinking about voting Tory at the next election having never done so previously.

The legal distinction between men and women is central to women's rights existing. Those rights cease to exist in a meaningful way if anyone can identify as a woman but the realities of being born female will not change even if we claim to believe men can be women because the biology which leads to female oppression will remain the same. We will end up in a situation where women are as disadvantaged as they ever were but we will not have specific language to identify the source of the problem. If women's rights are eroded then children, by extension, will also be affected.

As long as the conservative party have put self ID on the back burner we have time to campaign for women's rights. We currently have an almost defacto self ID which means we can gather data about the impact on women to make an irrefutable and evidenced arguement for why it is a bad idea. It will be almost impossible to reverse if it is passed into law and therefore we need to keep any party, who supports self ID out of power, until a little common sense and consideration for women returns.

Do I like the conservative party? No
Am I prepared to watch womens rights be rolled back? No

My choice is about buying time to prevent a catastrophic reversal of women's rights.

@lazylinguist

You could vote for the green party if that's an option

Not unless they know what a woman is. And, as far as I'm aware, they don't. I actually joined the Green Party in order to be able to vote in their leadership election (and hopefully then be able to vote Green), but the candidate I wanted didn't get in.

Why does the green party not know what a woman is?

Labour has no pledge to change it's previous manifesto position on gender issues.

I don't know where this has come from.

It was the Conservatives who began the push to bring in the GRA, with a customary drive for popularity over due diligence.

The Labour Party has a lot of members who have a strong desire for radical change - and a very sensible leadership who know that the electorate, as a whole, don't want that change.

The manifesto position has, therefore, not been altered.

And I am willing to bet that if won't be.

🤷‍♀️

Why does the green party not know what a woman is?

It's a mystery alright.

@FOJN

If I even spoil it. I might just vote for my sitting Tory. And I would have categorically told you, even two years ago, that that would never happen.

I've spoilt my ballot at the last two elections (I did pop a woman: adult human female sticker on the last ballot) but I'm fed up of sitting it out so I may also vote Tory having never done so or thought I would.

RepentMotherfucker your username makes me laugh every time I see it.

Outs self!

And Rosie Duffield is Chair of the Women's Parliamentary Labour Party.

The issue is divisive. I'd like to see some stronger action taken in support of Rosie Duffield's right to speak.

But painting Lsbour as the most pressing threat to wimen's rights is way off.

[quote Outlyingtrout]**@RepentMotherfucker* unless I've missed a post, @ilovesooty* hasn't actually said whether they support the Labour and gender ideology. This was the initial premise of the thread. That thinking Labour are a shower of shite is a defence of the Tories. In actual fact, Labour being a shower of shite has left many of us politically homeless. It's not an 'either or' situation. I don't have to support Labour or the Tories. I really hate the fact that voicing disapproval of Labour is interpreted to signal automatic support for the Tories, so I wouldn't assume the opposite for someone else.

Like @ilovesooty, I cannot make sense of people who reject Labour based on the way they have thrown women and children - and especially vulnerable women - under the bus, but who will vote Tory as an alternative. I don’t understand how you can care about vulnerable women when it’s Labour trampling all over them, but be prepared to vote for the Tories who do the same thing anyway just dressed up differently (and a whole lot more to disadvantage poor and vulnerable people besides).[/quote]
This is not his/her first rodeo @Outlyingtrout

Labour seem to have a very tenuous grasp of Safeguarding, and if they can put out a MP saying in all seriousness that a male rapist belongs in women’s prison what next will they come out with.
Will we have a Labour MP coming out with paedophilia is a legitimate sexuality, and calling people bigots and dinosaurs for not accepting it.
They seem easily captured by any shiny new bandwagon regardless of what it means for women and children.

I am very unhappy with Labour's insistence that gender trumps biology; however I'm at the stage where I want it all out in the open now, so even more eyes are opened to this anti-women crap.

Why does the green party not know what a woman is?

Your guess is as good as mine. After all, people have known what a woman is since the dawn of humankind, but apparently some people (including the Green Party, judging by their policies) have forgotten:

Trans rights
RR530 The Green Party recognises that there are many gender identities that are within, and outside of, the traditional gender binary of man and woman. The Green Party recognises that trans men are men, trans women are women, and that non-binary identities exist and are valid.

@FOJN if you knew anything about the police, crime and sentencing bill and proposed backdoor amendments, you would be worried about the possible curtailment of everybody's democratic right to protest with some of the most oppressive legislation since the war.