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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Will Johnson be gone before Christmas or after?

589 replies

Sarahlou63 · 07/12/2021 22:38

I'm thinking the 1922 committee grandees will run out of patience fairly soon. So will Johnson stand aside to be a better parent before Christmas or will he continue to drag his party into the shit into 2022?

YABU - hangs on for grim death

YANBU - Who the fuck is Johnson?

OP posts:
jgw1 · 12/12/2021 11:30

@JaniieJones

'I don't, as much as i can't stand him, the damage to the public health message, should pictures emerge of Johnson partying, '

Yes, I don't want to see it for that reason but an online quiz is not breaking any rules. If they have actual rule breaking let's see it.

Are you saying that those unmasked, not socially distanced people that Boris is photographed with in today's papers are members of his family?
SueSaid · 12/12/2021 11:33

'Are you saying that those unmasked, not socially distanced people that Boris is photographed with in today's papers are members of his family?'

No they're colleagues at work. It was a zoom quiz, unless this is just the start and the Mirror have actually incriminating stuff they've made themselves look absolutely stupid.

jgw1 · 12/12/2021 13:21

@JaniieJones

'Are you saying that those unmasked, not socially distanced people that Boris is photographed with in today's papers are members of his family?'

No they're colleagues at work. It was a zoom quiz, unless this is just the start and the Mirror have actually incriminating stuff they've made themselves look absolutely stupid.

I am glad you are agreeing that they were breaking the face and space parts of the government guidance.

Not only were they so little interested in the work they had to do, in the middle of a pandemic and a self created Brexit crisis to play a juvenile quiz, but they couldn't even follow the advice the government kept repeating at the time.

Peregrina · 12/12/2021 15:15

they couldn't even follow the advice

Follow the LAW.

jgw1 · 12/12/2021 15:34

@Peregrina

they couldn't even follow the advice

Follow the LAW.

I said advice because I wasn't sure if mask wearing and 2m+ distance was law at the time.

Anyway despite what the diehard Johnson fans say the picture does not paint a pretty picture.

HeadPain · 12/12/2021 16:25

I've expressed very strong feelings on this thread, I hate saying it but I think I hate the man, yet I can't really get myself worked up about a photo of him sat at a table on Zoom with two colleagues he's probably been working with everyday anyway, (unless there's more people in the room), even if technically it may be a break of the rules that only allowed one non-household person in the room if gathering for social reasons and work colleagues didn't have an exemption. But covid virus doesn't differentiate between whether 3 people are working or socialising. According to this barrister the issue is also Boris was Zooming to offices that had up to 24 people in them, who I've read had apparently come in to the building just for this social event. And there was alcohol etc. So seems organised as a party/social event. Which was against the rules, including for work colleagues. This barrister made a thread about it:

mobile.twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1469791515308396544

Apparently this also led to drinks and mingling between offices too:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/top-lawyer-not-convinced-boris-25675483

It was obviously organised to be a party/social event. The exemption to gathering with more than one non household person was if "deemed reasonably necessary for work", which did not include social gatherings at work. From The Mirror, "the government told us exactly what they thought was “reasonably necessary for work” – their own guidance at the time said “you must not have a work Christmas lunch or party, where that is a primarily social activity”. So that seems to exclude the work exception."

"On 15 December 2020, London was in Tier 2. Under paragraph 1 of Schedule 2 to the “All Tiers” regulations, no person could participate in a gathering indoors of two or more people.

The officer would have considered possible exceptions. The first relevant one is a “permitted organised gathering”, under paragraph 4(4). But that could only work if people participated alone or in household groups. (HeadPain: I don't understand this,btw.) That doesn’t seem to apply here.

The second is that the gathering was “reasonably necessary for work” under paragraph 4(6). Maybe the civil servants would say that they needed the quiz for morale, or had to stay at work to run the government.

The officer might think: well, what is “reasonably necessary” for an office is a bit subjective.

But the government told us exactly what they thought was “reasonably necessary for work” – their own guidance at the time said “you must not have a work Christmas lunch or party, where that is a primarily social activity”. So that seems to exclude the work exception. "

But yeh this photo is not a smoking gun I don't think. Actually I was surprised that Boris seem a bit sensible, doing it on Zoom to the offices, (even if the offices were misbehaving and breaking the rules), and only being with 2 people (unless more not pictured) even if technically Boris should've only had one non-household person in room with him when mixing socially, rather than two. It is breaking rules, but I just can't get worked up about that. Covid virus doesn't differentiate when you're mixing for work or social event, if those three were working and then did this quiz what's the point of one of them leaving the room because they started a "social activity" , when they'd just been working together. Once you have to get into technicalities, explanations, debates about wording, rather than it being simple and clear, most people switch off. Though it seems obvious Boris knew about the rule braking in the offices. The photo is probably the main thing in people's minds now and it doesn't really look bad for Boris I don't think. Of course we don't know what Boris got up to outside of this photo, but actually this will probably make people go "Oh well, that's not a big deal." and stop caring about any of this.

This is not The Party, anyway, but now the waters can be muddied with some people thinking it is. This was 3 days before the party that is being investigated.

And apparently there were other parties:

mobile.twitter.com/Afzal4Gorton/status/1468902101187280896

On one hand I'd like party footage to come out, on the other hand it could risk public health. The issue of the lying, mocking, laughing about it and in turn laughing at the public is evidenced.

Peregrina · 12/12/2021 16:41

So this shows what an utter mish mash the laws were. But they were the law, so it behoves the law makers to set an example. Which they didn't do, and seemed to find it a huge joke when people were not able to be with loved ones when they were dying.

Octavia174 · 12/12/2021 18:25

@JaniieJones

'Are you saying that those unmasked, not socially distanced people that Boris is photographed with in today's papers are members of his family?'

No they're colleagues at work. It was a zoom quiz, unless this is just the start and the Mirror have actually incriminating stuff they've made themselves look absolutely stupid.

It may not be the Ministry of Sound but BJ set up a quiz knowing that people were gathering in groups of 4 to 6, with food and drinks.

So whilst his supporters can argue points of law, its not a good look and why didn't they never mentioned any of this earlier.

Plus why is there a bin bag up in the ceiling corner, is that covering up a camera?

Petlover9 · 12/12/2021 18:51

@Armpittits

Yup, I hear most call him a bell end these days Grin
That is way too polite!! He is a bumbling buffoon and a lying tosser, apart from being a CF
SueSaid · 12/12/2021 20:26

'It may not be the Ministry of Sound but BJ set up a quiz'

Correct it wasn't MoS it was a zoom quiz.

They are curtains, I dont think they'd be so stupid as to cover cctv up with bin bags. You mustn't let the main stream media brainwash you like this Confused

Peregrina · 12/12/2021 23:11

What we need now is a list of those who attended. I wonder if the Mirror and ITV have this in their possession? It would be good to see who sent out the invitations. Johnson probably wants to know this so that he can throw them under the bus.

GreenLunchBox · 13/12/2021 00:17

The bin bag in the top left was covering up the CCTV. It's been trending on Twitter but we know the TV news and newspapers won't cover this so the oldies who vote Tory won't know about this. Oh well. Fuck it. Who actually cares any more?

GreenLunchBox · 13/12/2021 00:19

Tbh even if they knew they wouldn't care. I don't actually care any more either.

Losing the will to vote

GreenLunchBox · 13/12/2021 00:20

Feel silly that I used to be annoyed at my ex for not voting. He always said he didn't because it didn't make any difference. Feel I need to apologise to him now

Florianus · 13/12/2021 08:36

It may not be the Ministry of Sound but BJ set up a quiz

I've not seen anyone else suggest that BJ set up the quiz. On the contrary, it is said that he only took part in it for a few minutes, so it seems unlikely that he would have set it up.

Kennykenkencat · 13/12/2021 08:53

I think the whole go to work, work closely with your colleagues. But once work is done you must jump 2 metres apart and you can’t see the same people for a drink, even if still in the offices you had been working in incase you get Covid was a ridiculous rule.

If someone had Covid then I don’t think they would infect people only after work.

Franklin12 · 13/12/2021 09:34

That photo of Boris Johnson with a couple of people is silly. Some people are trying to look for something that isnt there. However if there is footage of a party with bottle of beer strewn around and people singing and dancing that is it.

Stratton definitely needed to go after her comments though.

jgw1 · 13/12/2021 09:37

@Franklin12

That photo of Boris Johnson with a couple of people is silly. Some people are trying to look for something that isnt there. However if there is footage of a party with bottle of beer strewn around and people singing and dancing that is it.

Stratton definitely needed to go after her comments though.

It certainly is silly (rather a polite way of putting it) for the Prime Minister in the middle of a pandemic and a self created Brexit crisis to be wasting time on quizzes.
AndreaC74 · 13/12/2021 09:55

@Florianus

It may not be the Ministry of Sound but BJ set up a quiz

I've not seen anyone else suggest that BJ set up the quiz. On the contrary, it is said that he only took part in it for a few minutes, so it seems unlikely that he would have set it up.

"it is said........" Downing street said he was only there for a few minutes, we don't know either way.

I don't understand why something that looks like a bin bag or folded up curtain was in the corner of the room.

Also i'm not sure why Stratton had to go if there was no parties, if there weren't any, she was just fooling about and no different than any other so called humour we see on the TV.

jgw1 · 13/12/2021 10:44

Also i'm not sure why Stratton had to go if there was no parties, if there weren't any, she was just fooling about and no different than any other so called humour we see on the TV.

If I wanted to see a clown fooling around I'd go to the circus.

SueSaid · 13/12/2021 11:11

'Also i'm not sure why Stratton had to go if there was no parties, if there weren't any, she was just fooling about and no different than any other so called humour we see on the TV.'

It just looked unprofessional and grossly insensitive as if she was laughing at the public.

To be caught sniggering and being so unprofessional in a media room knowing whe was being recorded would show a serious lack of judgement and competence. All adding fuel to the media's witch-hunt which detracts from the serious issue with omicron which should be the media's focus.

Clavinova · 13/12/2021 11:18

GreenLunchBox
The bin bag in the top left was covering up the CCTV. It's been trending on Twitter but we know the TV news and newspapers won't cover this so the oldies who vote Tory won't know about this.

If it's trending on Twitter it must be true.

Photo of the Thatcher Room here;

www.wired.co.uk/article/10-downing-street-street-view-google-inside

jgw1 · 13/12/2021 11:23

@JaniieJones

'Also i'm not sure why Stratton had to go if there was no parties, if there weren't any, she was just fooling about and no different than any other so called humour we see on the TV.'

It just looked unprofessional and grossly insensitive as if she was laughing at the public.

To be caught sniggering and being so unprofessional in a media room knowing whe was being recorded would show a serious lack of judgement and competence. All adding fuel to the media's witch-hunt which detracts from the serious issue with omicron which should be the media's focus.

Boris is permanently sniggering and unprofessional. Do you hold him to the same standard?
YukoandHiro · 13/12/2021 11:24

After but by Easter is my bet