AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

I had an issue around ten years ago - I didn't get any time off over Christmas but I had covered a few shifts for a colleague to help him out with Ramadan and Eid. He ended up having a few days off rota over Christmas and immediately offered to cover some of my shifts. Well, the murders it caused! He was called all sorts for not offering to cover a childed colleague, I was called all sorts for refusing to let this colleague have the free time instead of me. It's worth pointing out that my Dad was dying at the time! Moral of the story? Never give in and always do favours for colleagues of different religions.

@EgonSpengler2020

I'm a paramedic and the fairest system I've come across for summer holidays was 13 people on rota, 2 allowed off at any time, 6 weeks summer holiday, names would get drawn out of a hat, and assigned a week each, so one person each year would not get a week during the summer holidays. It then got put on the noticeboard for a period of time so that we could negotiate and do any swaps before being finalised. Generally if someone with kids landed the week outside the school holidays, someone without kids would swap (it's a tourist area, so being off in September is better if you don't have kids).

Sometime childfree staff would give up their week completely to a colleague with childcare issues, but there was never any pressure to do so. I think once a fair and transparent system is in place, staff are more inclined to help each other out.

Christmas on the other hand..... It's an annual battleground!!

The last bit about Christmas being a battle ground, suddenly the theme mortal kombat came to mind.

Great, I hope none of you need the next generation for any kind of service... no nursing in old age, no tax payments to support your health care & pensions, no delivery driversfor your online shopping, to name a few things you might need or simply want.

Naturally parents want to spend time with their children... best time for that is during school holidays. So while I agree holidays should be first come first served, in some circumstances parents should have preferential treatment. Especially if there isn't any childcare available like at Christmas and Easter bank holidays.

Just noticed your user name too, @EgonSpengler2020 what's your view on the new film ?

@KwestTurkey

Unless you’re lucky enough to have a retired grandparent who is happy & capable to look after the children, what is the alternative?

Well put very bluntly, it was your decision to have children, not your colleagues.

Which is exactly the sort of response I got from people when I needed time off work to actually look after my children because the childminders took the Christmas week off and there weren't any holiday clubs.

I only ever requested a couple of days before Christmas, thinking that as I was available for the rest of the time (the ex would take them on condition I gave up Christmas day from 9am until New Year's Eve when he wanted to go out), it wouldn't be too much to ask - but it was an outright 'we don't give parents time at Christmas because it's not fair on those of us who don't have children'. Naturally as it was NHS, this bit was never written down, it was always refused on the grounds of need. But the need was that all but the other member of staff who had children were off on holiday/having Christmas with their Mum.

Never did get a holiday with my children, either. Not once in the 10 years, as I couldn't take them out of school and wasn't allowed leave in the holidays.

It did feel pretty shit, but they seemed to enjoy their time off whilst we sat in empty departments with no patients or medical staff, just waiting for the phone to ring, which it never did, because there wasn't any clinics running.

If I didn't have children I would never book time off in school holidays. The prices are ridiculous especally in England! Personally I would let parents have the summer/easter etc but Xmas is slightly different as most people want that off.

I think the rigid structure of set term times and holidays is just shit for everyone. Everyone with kids rushing to have a holiday in only certain weeks of the year, with astronomical holiday prices where you’re surrounded by millions of other families and kids. If there was more flexibility for everyone, there would be a lot less competition for holiday approval at work.

@Ylvamoon seriously? Grow up.

If my DC is in a caring profession they should refuse to care for childless people because no one covered for their mum on school holidays?

We have DC because we want to, not to provide services to future old people on a quid pro quo basis.

I don't think parents should have automatic priority and I find the whole 'but Christmas is about children/you wouldn't understand' rude to others, but I also think caring responsibilities and wider social needs and issues need to be considered particularly around this time of year.

My spouse has had the most time off for caring for other relatives and some of the people he works with are caring for parents. It's very difficult to get most types of care in late December to early January. I think that has to be considered, ethically. It's part of my why my spouse has worked the last 7 Christmases and has already put himself forward for it this year - we can cover if either or both of us work that time & we know others who value Christmas far more than we do (which is not at all) can't, whether they chose to be in the position or not, that's their reality now of needing to consider that care now.

However, some schools here in the USA (and not nearly enough of them, in my opinion) have started going year round. They go six weeks, then have two weeks off. After some initial mumbling and grumbling, parents found it easier to schedule holidays, and opened up things for them that they could never do before, such as skiing trips and such.

I went to a year round elementary school in the US, though it was 9 weeks on, 3 weeks off with 5 in the summer, and yeah - those breaks were delightful, if only for seeing older relatives without my cousins around. I've read mixed opinions in terms of learning, but it's interesting to read it's getting more popular - that school district had a lot of experimental things going on, some that's taken off and some that's been quietly replaced since.

Should be first come first serve.

Just because someone’s not a parent doesn’t mean they don’t have other commitments in their personal lives.

@BiBabbles that sounds like a nightmare. What happens if you have DC at different schools? The 9/3 +5 schedule means you'd be spending more than a third of your year on holiday too. In Australia it's 10/2 + 5.
I really don't see how this would solve anything.

I’m a parent and YANBU. Holidays should be on first come first serve basis.

Everyone should be treated fairly in the workplace. Childcare is not the responsibility of your colleagues or employer to manage for you. I had a colleague ask me to cancel my wedding as she had a childcare issue…my fucking wedding! I was off circa week but we were eloping so hadn’t told bc anyone. After being badgered by her fid 2 weeks I finally had to tell her ‘I will be 3 hours away from home, I’ve actually booked my wedding for that day!’ She then said ‘well can you cancel’ when I said no it is my WEDDING and bc everything was booked, paid and arranged she still saif ‘I’m sure you could shuffle it around a bit..,’

As a parent who had only had the last 2 Xmas days off thanks to Covid and redundancy I do not understand the concept of parental preference!

But I agree. My DD works in the NHS and its her turn to have Xmas day off and got told "but as you havent got kids we put you on anway" and got no end of shit when she said no.

As for summers off, well when my lot have all finally buggered off I shall do what my best friends do and sod off to somewhere hot in the winter for a month each year! Summer holidays are for those who have no choice imo

But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague

I don't have children but I've worked in a university for the last ten years, which is very restrictive. I can't take time off in September or most of October, then there's exams in December. Semester starts again in mid-January so that's hectic, then exams in April and May, exam boards in June, resits and the corresponding exam board in August, then it all starts again in September.

That leaves me the option of going on my main holiday in November, February or July. Add in the fact that DH's work operates a rota system for annual leave (whereby you move up your group of ten people each year until you get first choice of the weeks, then you go back to the bottom of the list) and it's slim pickings.

I hate when people think they have more dibs than others with holidays.
I used to work every Xmas day and it really annoyed me as I still had family! Just because I didn't have children at the time didnt mean I wanted to spend year after year alone Xmas night.
Now when taking leave I try to be as fair as possible when requesting even though it's kinda my turn to be the asshole 🤣

I don't think it should be an actual rule that parents get preferential treatment but on the whole I'd hope most people were flexible. I'm not taking time off this Xmas to let others in my team with kids have the whole week off. When I was a child I liked to have my parents around over Xmas. If I had something on then fair enough a bit of flexibility both ways but I don't want to stand in the way of a family Christmas to watch re runs of Jingle all the Way every day

The school holidays are basically the whole summer, by the time schools go back in Sept, the nights are drawing in

What about the first 3 weeks of May, all of June and 80% off July. Most years the weather is much nicer in June and July than August anyway

I don't have kids of my own and I lost count of how many times parents asked me to change leave dates. It's like parents think that childless/free people have no life outside of work.

If parents expect the fact that they have kids not to be taken into account when applying & being considered for jobs, then they should not expect them to be taken into account at all at work.

YANBU at all, OP.

Yanbu

YANBU

However as a single parent with no support, I work out when I need holiday at least a year in advance and book it before anyone else.

I hope none of my colleagues thinks I get preferential treatment, I really have already booked next Christmas eve.

YANBU. I think there are 2 issues though - lack of childcare over holidays such as Christmas means a lot of parents would struggle for childcare is one.
The other is specifically with CF colleagues who feel entitled to that time off and kick off about it, which is very different to situations where parents ask if anyone will swap or accept offers from colleagues who are happy to work.

Years ago I was a carer and had my Christmas holiday requests initially approved then taken back because one person kicked off and announced I didn't need time off as I wasn't a mother.
I had been given Christmas shifts for the previous 2 years and when I spoke to bosses I was told they basically asked all parents who was willing to work Christmas Day then put together the rota using any worker who didn't have children to get to the right numbers. I think that was beyond unfair and it resulted in my resignation.

Now my DH is a teacher so we have no choice but to take my leave during school holidays but do a completely different job now (where we close for bank holidays) and there's never been any issues. We work as a team and make a plan together so everything is covered and everyone is pulling their weight.

YANBU. Childcare problems are for parents to sort, the onus isn’t on childfree colleagues to solve them.

Similarly, you can’t demand someone else sacrifice for you, ‘for the greater good’ (mentioned earlier in the thread).

Since when were summer and Christmas about kids? These are happy times of the year for everyone and everyone deserves them off equally.

absolutely time off in summer and Christmas should be shared equally. Just because you don’t have children doesn’t mean you don’t want to take time off during these times or have other family responsibilities. Not sure about the UK but where I am family status is a protected characteristic, you cannot be treated unfavourably due to your family status.