AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

[Glassofshloer]

@Brunilde

I don't think it should be expected but I do think it's nice for colleagues to consider each other. Before I had kids I would leave Xmas eve for people who had young kids as I do think it's a special time of year for them, and you don't get many years of them being excited. Now I have young kids my colleagues have said I should get priority. I wouldn't kick off
if I didn't but I do really appreciate it.

Yes I did this too. Interestingly the woman on my team who ‘hogged’ Xmas leave was a middle aged child free lady who insisted she just had to have those days off, because they coincided with her parent’s death 10 years ago & she was too depressed to work…

[Xmasprrssiehelp]

I think there should be flexibility for working parents but I do draw the line at annual leave.

Annual leave should be first come first served. If your a parent who struggles for childcare during holidays etc, you need to be organised months in advance. Simple as.

My both worked, and they still book all there annual leave a year in advance to ensure they get it.

[FrangipaniBlue]

You're being facetious.

It's about the expectation to be given first dibs just because they are parents that puts them firmly in entitled territory.

[DameAlyson]

But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off!

Lots of things happen during school holidays that child free people might want to attend - music festivals, conferences, summer schools. These things often use university facilities, so they have to take place in vacation time.

Not everyone wants time off to go to a resort.

[MrsSkylerWhite]

“But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)”

None of your business. Whether you understand it or not is irrelevant.

No one has any more right to holiday than anyone else.

[Pawprintpaper]

@alanskisj

I don't think parents should have preferential treatment, or it should be first come first serve. Things like Christmas should be shared equally, if you don't have one Christmas off you can have the next instead etc. Otherwise you get the individual who books all the 'best' days off at the start of the year and screw anyone else who can't make plans that early.

This, we have jobs with an on call rota and there are always some sneaky people who will sit poised over their email finger at the stroke of midnight to grab the best time off. It should be shared out and taken in turns… particularly Easter/Christmas

[housemaus]

YANBU! A couple of places I've worked have given priority to parents for time off during summer holidays, Christmas etc - or the parents have sulked about it enough that the line managers have given in.

If it were made clear from the outset that I didn't have priority for those dates, I'd understand and never work there but it's not - it just rolls round to "Oh, you want that week off? Well, it's half term and Sarah has two little ones" or "I need to you to swap Boxing Day with me, we have a tradition with the kids and it's really important, you wouldn't get how important it is"... well, I have a life too, so no. Fuck off.

(This is a point of personal annoyance, can you tell? Where I work now, only 2 people in 20 have kids and holiday is done by team, so it's not been an issue, but I always make sure my team get equal opportunity to take between Christmas and New Year off regardless of home situation).

[Mellowyellow222]

I have always gone out of my may to allow colleagues with kids to have Christmas etc - but to be honest it is starting to annoy me.

With working from home I now find parents seem to believe they have an automatic right to disappear for the afternoon school run. If I said I am going for a non negotiable walk for half an hour at 3pm every day I would quickly be told i am required to attend meetings.

I do think work should be flexible, but I think some parents expect far too much.

Having children is a choice and a privilege. I shouldn’t have to work harder and longer to allow other people time off to enjoy family life simply because I don’t have children.

[Thurlow]

I do mostly agree but I feel with children - with any caring responsibilities - there sometimes come clashed where there has to be give and take. For example, I will and do try to work my share of the Christmas period (office job) but DH has the kind of 24/7 shift work job and if he'd rota'd to work Christmas when there's no childcare available I'm screwed, and Will petty much beg for time off.

[Awalkintime]

I have only ever had 1 family Christmas 3 years ago when my brother was 40 because of those with kids made it impossible for us to actually be able to get time off so I think it needs to be fairly shared not people making lame excuses about childcare.

When I was little the same people got the time off and stamped their feet over Christmas and as a child both parents worked so we often spent time alone. As we grew up and my parents retired, me and my siblings who are childfree were then in a situation where we were unable to get time off as people demanded their time was more important.

People who are childfree also have families and it is sad we have never developed traditions or spent a Christmas ever with cousins etc and extended family.

[Darkpheonix]

Yanbu. I say that as a parent.

I run several teams and we work it out between us. But there's no expectation that anyone has to not have leave because they don't have kids.

We have grandparent. Grandparents who live far away from their kids and grandkids and want to stay with them for a week. People with no kids that just want to enjoy the break and Christmas. People with no kids who will be travelling a long way to be with family. As well as parents

We are closed between Christmas and New year, so it's usually the days leading up to Christmas eve that's popular.

I took some last year. So am not this year. Luckily everyone on my teams seem to be really considerate of eachother and like to make sure it's fair.

That said, not at this job, but in my last one the only person who got arsey about having every Christmas off (we were open in between Christmas and New year) was someone without kids, as she wanted to go home for 2 weeks, every Christmas.

When she was told it had be granted to she could go for one, it's caused a huge amount of drama.

[KwestTurkey]

"I need to you to swap Boxing Day with me, we have a tradition with the kids and it's really important, you wouldn't get how important it is"... well, I have a life too, so no. Fuck off.

I've seen this argument before, "oh but Christmas is about the children". I think it's lovely if someone offers to cover Christmas so a parent can have the time off, if they want to offer and don't mind. But in no way should they be pressured or expected to just because they don't have children. I loved spending time with my family on Christmas before and after children. I don't understand why anyone would think a childfree colleague wouldn't be just as deserving of enjoying Christmas off.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

It never bothered me when I was child free. My folks both worked so I knew how much of a PITA it was to get childcare or be able to go to Nativity plays and the like.

No one ever asked me for my actual holiday entitlement though. That is cheeky in the extreme.

[EgonSpengler2020]

I'm a paramedic and the fairest system I've come across for summer holidays was
13 people on rota, 2 allowed off at any time, 6 weeks summer holiday, names would get drawn out of a hat, and assigned a week each, so one person each year would not get a week during the summer holidays. It then got put on the noticeboard for a period of time so that we could negotiate and do any swaps before being finalised. Generally if someone with kids landed the week outside the school holidays, someone without kids would swap (it's a tourist area, so being off in September is better if you don't have kids).

Sometime childfree staff would give up their week completely to a colleague with childcare issues, but there was never any pressure to do so. I think once a fair and transparent system is in place, staff are more inclined to help each other out.

Christmas on the other hand..... It's an annual battleground!!

[kitcat15]

@womaninatightspot

Some jobs you can sell a certain number of your holiday days (think it was 5 a year) at a fixed rate to your colleagues. I thought that was quite a good idea.

As a parent myself finding childcare can be brutal, sometimes it's not as simple as pay a childminder/ holiday club as there aren't any so it's nice if employers show some flexibility.

In my nhs trust we can 'buy up to 10 extra days leave a year....so that would be on top of the 41 days we already get ( 33 plus 8 days BH)

[NotMyCat]

I once had a rota that meant I got Christmas Day, Boxing Day, NYE and NYD off
My colleague kicked off as I don't have children and was moaning how unfair it was I got the whole time off
Manager pointed out loudly I had worked every Christmas and new year for 8 years running and if she wanted to do that for the next 8 years then of course she could have a full Christmas off in year 9. She piped down then luckily as I was fuming
It was just the way my rota fell but after her moaning and the fact she hadn't ever worked a Christmas and NY, I wasn't swapping shifts!

[Ohsugarhoneyicetea]

If it allows more women to stay in the workplace and not get priced out by childcare costs then I think its for the greater good. That being said, if its shift work and Christmas day that should definitely be taken in turns or that seems quite unfair.

[Spottybotty20]

Where is all this paid childcare over Christmas? My sons school and nursery are both shut, do your children’s nursery’s stay open over Christmas?
I work in a school so thankfully doesn’t apply to me. But my husband worked nearly every Xmas day before we had kids so that none of his colleagues missed out on Christmas with their children. This was including the year when he lived away and he ended up having dinner with his bosses family.

Now we have kids and thankfully his colleagues are doing the same for him. I wouldn’t be so bothered about teenagers but ages 0-10 you really don’t want to miss.

The summer is surely a childcare issue, the amount of threads I’ve seen of people desperately looking for play schemes etc for their kids. It’s not that easy to just pay for it and every time the suggestion is to use your holiday. Seems very privileged to say “use childcare not holiday”

I don’t think parents are to blame in this but the school.childcare set up is still aimed at families with a stay at home parent so not fit for purpose nowadays.

[yikesanotherbooboo]

Parents shouldn't get priority but hopefully one's colleagues might be generous if it doesn't matter to them regarding half terms and the summer. I don't really think Christmas is the same; most people want time off then if for no other reason than the way the bank holidays fall.

[Niconacotaco]

Our holidays are first come, first served, except for school holidays. We have set days to request them by, and they will all be reviewed together. This can be a problem for people who would prefer to book holidays in advance though (like me! I need to confirm with DH and my parents etc) but it does mean that the allocations are fair.
Christmas and New Year are very strictly monitored for fairness because everyone wants time off regardless of kids.

[housemaus]

@Brunilde

I don't think it should be expected but I do think it's nice for colleagues to consider each other. Before I had kids I would leave Xmas eve for people who had young kids as I do think it's a special time of year for them, and you don't get many years of them being excited. Now I have young kids my colleagues have said I should get priority. I wouldn't kick off
if I didn't but I do really appreciate it.

Oh yeah this is nice if you want to! Like I said above, I offer Christmas Eve to my 2 direct reports equally each year. One without kids isn't usually bothered, so she lets the one with young kids have it, that's nice. But it shouldn't be expected that non-parents have to consider their colleagues' kids when making decisions about leave - if they want to be nice, lovely, but if they don't, that's fine and shouldn't be an expectation of childless people.

One year Colleage With Small Kids pulled his face about not being able to because other colleague had first dibs that year and opted to take it, and he got short shrift from me. His having children does not trump her plans to anyone except him.

[nanbread]

I don't disagree, however as the parent of disabled DC which means it's nigh on impossible to use school holiday clubs, me not being able to take any leave in summer because all my single child-free colleagues booked it before me totally fucks me over.

Their disabilities also make it more challenging to book things very far in advance, for a few different reasons.

Yes it was my decision to have children, it was not my decision to have children with disabilities.

I'm the only person with primary age DC at my workplace, and the only person with DC with disabilities, it wouldn't hurt the company or my colleagues if my holiday were prioritised some of the time.

[Blinky21]

I agree, having children doesn't give you any rights to specific time off. Ultimately having children is a choice and where I work it's first come first served

[Scottishskifun]

Summer I agree first come first serve there are options available for childcare but Christmas is a different story.

There are zero childcare options available if you have no family nearby (which we dont). I am working 2 days between Xmas and New year on the 2 days that my DH isn't but it'd far from ideal and if I was a single parent then I wouldn't have this option.

Some parts of the country nurseries are open but none up my way are.

[housemaus]

@Spottybotty20

Where is all this paid childcare over Christmas? My sons school and nursery are both shut, do your children’s nursery’s stay open over Christmas?
I work in a school so thankfully doesn’t apply to me. But my husband worked nearly every Xmas day before we had kids so that none of his colleagues missed out on Christmas with their children. This was including the year when he lived away and he ended up having dinner with his bosses family.

Now we have kids and thankfully his colleagues are doing the same for him. I wouldn’t be so bothered about teenagers but ages 0-10 you really don’t want to miss.

The summer is surely a childcare issue, the amount of threads I’ve seen of people desperately looking for play schemes etc for their kids. It’s not that easy to just pay for it and every time the suggestion is to use your holiday. Seems very privileged to say “use childcare not holiday”

I don’t think parents are to blame in this but the school.childcare set up is still aimed at families with a stay at home parent so not fit for purpose nowadays.

Sure - I sympathise, there's definitely an issue there with childcare during holidays, but that's not anyone without kids' problem, nor should employers be disadvantaging other employees because of it.