AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

[bloodywhitecat]

@JazzyBBG

Hmmm on the fence here as a parent, you have to accept to a degree that people will want that time off at certain ages. Equally as someone who pays for a lot of childcare in holidays it shouldn't be all the time. But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)

Because my daughter is a teacher and school holidays are the one time I get to spend longer periods of time with her?

[Just10moreminutesplease]

Morally, no I don’t think they should get priority. I do see why some employers allow it though.

For some parents, paying for childcare for most of the holidays would be impossible, they may even have to leave their job if it comes to it.

This mostly affects mothers and good employers want to support women returning to the office… it’s a difficult situation.

[Ohpulltheotherone]

So what are you childcare options then OP?

Do you have family to help, a healthy salary so that nursery or holiday club fees are manageable? Do you work full time or are you p/t or stay at home?

These things make a difference to our opinions don’t they.

Some people can fully afford childcare for the majority of the school years then lose their job, partner, health and circumstances change.

It’s very basic to say people should think of their childcare solutions before their have kids, without any consideration to the fact that circumstances can change significantly between trying for a baby and having a 12 year old with 6 weeks of holiday club to pay for.

All that said, I agree that it should be managed fairly so that parents and child free can take the holidays they want or need and no one gets to nab all the best leave every year.

But the blame doesn’t necessarily sit with the parents, it sits with the totally shite attitude this country has towards childcare cost and options for working parents (let’s say women, bc the majority will fall to us let’s be honest)

[RevolutionRadio]

Yanbu I'm child free and have worked in jobs where parents got priority for summer and Christmas. I don't mind summer so much, but I have family (including family children) that I'd like to spend a decent amount of time with at Christmas.

It's also just as bad when you do get time off and then people automatically assume you'd be willing to swap with them because they have children.

[Heartofglass12345]

I agree, first come first serve and I'm a parent.

Before I had kids I was working full time as a nurse. One of the other was the managers favourite and her rota basically dictated ours, she got exactly whatever shifts she wanted and the rest of us had to work around her. Drove me mad!

[Comfortsex]

I don't think parents should get preferential treatment but I don't think it should be first come first served either.

We don't allow Christmas leave booking until Octoberber, and we ask everyone to submit their preferences. We have minimum safe numbers of staff so have to refuse some people. Who gets refused is based on who worked the previous year as some people want the full 2 weeks off every year and it's simply not equitable.

[Athinginitself]

@JazzyBBG

Hmmm on the fence here as a parent, you have to accept to a degree that people will want that time off at certain ages. Equally as someone who pays for a lot of childcare in holidays it shouldn't be all the time. But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague ;)

I don't have children but like to have some time off over the summer (although fortunately not an issue in my workplace) I like the sunshine, being able to have a holiday with friends with children etc.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

I give single people priority at Christmas, as they often have to travel to stay with parents or siblings.

[Darkpheonix]

People keep mentioning childcare and it may be a problem for some. But that doesn't make it your colleagues problem or mean they can never get Christmas off because of your childcare issues.

But also, the vast majority of parents wanting Christmas off, want it off to spend time with their kids, not because of childcare. Which is fine. But other people want to spend time with their families too.

In summer, they want to spend time with their kids and save on holiday clubs. But also other people want time off in the summer.

[Finknottlesnewt]

I am an actual fully grown adult female mammal. It is literally in my DNA (and that of all females of every species ) to reproduce.. it's a thing called 'biology'

Yes there are people who choose to buck biological functions.. that is the beauty of 'higher functioning' mammals...but in the main. We reproduce. If we didn't there would be no more pensions, and we (the childless by choice ) would have no one to support us and we would need to be working until we die in our late 80s ...

I think it is the least we can do -
To support the people who have kids ..
They support me..

[ancientgran]

Don't know if you are in England but as soon as I wasn't tied to school holidays I loved it, June and most of July are generally better than late July and August in my opinion. Longer days for a kick off. Obviously awkward if your partner is a teacher.

I used to do rotas in my old job, staff needed 24 hrs a day 365 days a year. We couldn't let everyone have holidays at Christmas obviously but it normally worked out with:

1. Young staff were often willing to do a Christmas shift so they could have New Year off.
2. Orthodox staff would work Christmas and New Year so they could have a break for Orthodox Christmas.
3. Jewish staff would swap Hanukkah for Christmas.
4. Some staff who would be alone for Christmas/New Year would volunteer to work, maybe the money or maybe they didn't want to be home alone or maybe they were just being nice to other staff.
5. Some staff without children would volunteer to cover staff with young children.

I think in 20 years I had one Christmas where I got down to the last place for Christmas Day and had two staff who wanted it, we agreed one would work the morning and the other than afternoon so both got time with their families.

It was a mammoth task and obviously can only work if someone is prepared to take that on.

[Grayskelly]

My mother would love to look after her gc on school holidays, but not only can she not take days off, they load her roster to benefit the parents. I know why they do it, but it's still rotten.

[Flamingolingo]

Sort of. But there are also times when childcare isn’t available and so someone has to look after the kids. We juggle it between us, but sometimes it has to be me. So I think YAB(a bit)U. Also - all of my annual leave is taken up dealing with the kids. I have no time to myself at all. It’s swings and roundabouts really!

[Whatafustercluck]

I've never found this to be a problem tbh.The vast majority of child free people I've ever worked with prefer to take holidays outside of peak season - it's far cheaper and less busy.

Over Christmas, most people I've worked with behave like adults and accept rotational cover.

[audweb]

@Glassofshloer

In theory, absolutely yes. I do not believe free time or holidays are more inherently valuable to parents.

However… we live in a country/world where the vast majority of mothers cannot afford to NOT work, yet school is 9-3, term-time only.

Unless you’re lucky enough to have a retired grandparent who is happy & capable to look after the children, what is the alternative?

I pay for the childcare? Isn’t that what most people have to do? I don’t have family nearby, and her dads side live in another country. I had a reliable childminder and now a holiday club. Also I’m a lone parent. You make the choice to have a child, others don’t but that doesn’t mean we should get preferential treatment for annual leave, that’s really unfair.

[Willyoujustbequiet]

Yabu

If you are a lone parent without a support network and there is no childcare physically available as it's all shut Christmas day what do you suggest?

And before you say it people's circumstances change after they've had children.

The same argument would also apply to carers. Anyone with young kids/disabled/elderly dependants should take priority over someone with no caring responsibilities at those times of the year when it could be impossible to find an alternative.

[PrincessPaws]

@Thurlow

I do mostly agree but I feel with children - with any caring responsibilities - there sometimes come clashed where there has to be give and take. For example, I will and do try to work my share of the Christmas period (office job) but DH has the kind of 24/7 shift work job and if he'd rota'd to work Christmas when there's no childcare available I'm screwed, and Will petty much beg for time off.

That's perfectly understandable. Unfortunately an awful lot of people forget the 'give' in that sentence and feel that they have some divine right to the best holiday dates because they have kids.

The best one is always 'well x doesn't need Christmas as they don't have a family' (because kids are obviously the only family people can have)

[SickAndTiredAgain]

The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

Had they been given first dibs, or had they just booked it earlier than you? It sounds like you weren’t refused in case parents wanted it, you were refused because they’d already asked. So it sounds like your office had a first come first served system, which is flawed, but still, if everyone knows that’s the system and you were too slow, then you were too slow. First come first served doesn’t prioritise parents, it’s prioritises people who plan far ahead. You could have done that. Unless you’re saying that if you had, you’d have been told no, wait and see what the parents book first?

[Mamanyt]

Once my kids were grown, I volunteered to work EITHER Christmas Eve or Christmas day each year. I garnered a lot of good will doing that.

Summer holidays are a bit different, and yes, EVERYone wants off in a short period of time. For those with children, it is the ONLY time to book a holiday, so there is that. However, some schools here in the USA (and not nearly enough of them, in my opinion) have started going year round. They go six weeks, then have two weeks off. After some initial mumbling and grumbling, parents found it easier to schedule holidays, and opened up things for them that they could never do before, such as skiing trips and such.

[CreamFirstThenJamOnTop]

I don’t think parents should get preferential treatment but nor does first come first serve always seem fair.

I didn’t mind working Christmas Day etc when I didn’t have kids if somebody really wanted it off with their kids. I definitely prefer not working Christmas Day but if I am then I just get on with it and don’t assume I have any more right to be off than anyone else

[Hawkins001]

Reading with intrigue

[timeisnotaline]

@Coldilox

Glassofshloer people don’t need to not have babies, they just need to organise and pay for childcare. It’s what most working parents do.

Well sure. We do. No idea what you’re supposed to do at Christmas though or early January. I have my younger child in childcare for reliability compared to a nanny. They shut for almost 3 weeks over Christmas. My older child is at holiday programs, but these don’t take 3 year olds. It’s not parents fault the system is designed on the basis that they will have time off at this point in the year and if they don’t there are options. I’ve put out queries to find a nanny to cover it for a few days between dh & I taking some leave. Not everyone can pay for that, and I haven’t found one yet!

[timeisnotaline]

I’m not in the uk so Xmas = summer I should say!

[MiddleParking]

I once had someone work for me like this, always getting in first and booking the best dates (including Christmas) on the first day the coming years holiday system opened.

He wasn't happy when I told him it didn't work like that and we had to be fair to everyone and allow people the same chance to take Christmas off.

But surely that is how it works if you have a holiday system that ‘opens’ on a certain day? That’s the downside of a first come first served system, if you’re not the first to come you’re not the first served.

I think it should be allocated fairly and decently rather than FCFS - in my work we can mostly all be off at Christmas but we need one person working remotely on each of the non-bank holiday days (nothing proactive, just keeping an eye), and we generally just discuss our Christmas plans as a team and work out who can cover when. I’m one of the only ones with young children currently but I’m also on the management team, so I’d be first in line to volunteer to be on duty at Christmas because I get paid more/am more responsible for things being covered than my direct reports. Admittedly it’s easier with remote working, hopefully the new prevalence of that will help lots of people cover Christmas where they’d have struggled before. My other team member with young DC is Muslim but I don’t think she’s any keener to work at Christmas for that - it’s still the only time you get a decent cluster of bank holidays that might allow you to see family further afield and so on (also, she seems wildly excited for Christmas anyway! I think most people enjoy it as a secular celebration these days.)

[IWouldntHavetoWorkatAll]

YANBU. My life is not less important because I don’t have children.

Absolutely.

But what I don't understand is why people without kids would want to take holiday when the kids are off! I'd be avoiding it like the plague

My family don’t live near me so if I didn’t take a decent chunk of holiday off over Christmas I’d be spending it in my house on my own. I need the holiday so I can go and stay with them and as there’s no trains on Boxing Day I wouldn’t be able to get back in time to work or spend a decent amount of time.

I have always been a bit worried that preference would be given to those with children but fortunately that’s never happened. If anything I think at least a parent could have a partner or family or at worst pay someone to look after their children and they would still get to see them at the end of each day. Whereas I would literally have to spend the whole Christmas holiday period on my own. Boo hoo poor me !