AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

I’m so sorry @Darkpheonix.

@DancingQueen85 I’m appalled that you just called another person that word and then complained about being bullied.

(And by the way, a metric ton of people on this thread share your view so please stop the wide eyed “I alone am battling for childrens’ rights” nonsense.)

@Toomanyradishes

Out of interest to the people who are adamant parents should get holiday off at the expense of non parents, at what age of child does that stop? If you are vehement that christmas is most important for small children, over recently widowed children, or a parents last christmas, what age are your children going to be when you commit to always working christmas again so that people with younger children get it off?

If its about believing in the "magic" of Christmas, then 11 years old I propose.

@DancingQueen85

😂😂😂😂

So sat reading the thread then? Some day with the kids you’re having 🥴

@DancingQueen85 I have worked with someone like you. I suspect not everyone at work does agree with you. They just cant face the result of disagreeing with you.

I bever realised how lucky I am, my managers have always been great about time off and fair and parents have never been prioritised above non-parents. There is understanding for those with caring responsibilities but no one’s time is considered more/less important - we are payed to do a job after all. I hate to suggest it but it may be because the sector is male dominated.

Just to clarify that my only experience of this situation is of giving colleagues with kids priority for holiday before I had kids. Not sure how that makes me selfish

It becomes selfish the minute you expect others to do it just because you did.

[quote julieca]@DancingQueen85 I have worked with someone like you. I suspect not everyone at work does agree with you. They just cant face the result of disagreeing with you.[/quote]
This. Junior members of your team may not feel comfortable challenging you. It takes a good manager to care about all of your team. Imagine if they never get a Christmas holiday as they never have children! I don’t think that is fair at all. But then I don’t think Christmas is just for children.

Also why challenge a manager if nothing will change as a result except that you will be marked forever as a selfish cow. No point.

youvegottenminuteslynn

Sorry let me get this straight... you say parents should be given priority, say childless people should give up Christmas Day for colleagues with kids, that you and your parents would be horrified if they didn't, smugly post about spending the day with your kids making memories in response to various posters sharing stories of infertility or losing parents, call someone a cunt... then say MN is horrible and you've been bullied on this thread?!

Absolutely batshit behaviour.“

This ^

Oh and @DancingQueen85 if spending time with your kids is your priority, maybe don't spend days out making Christmas memories with them calling people cunts on Mumsnet. I'm sure your parents would be 'horrified' if they saw your post.

I am genuinely shocked that the consensus on this thread seems to be that it is ok for a childless grown up to take Christmas Day off, leaving a parent not able to see their child on a day that is primarily for children.

Whoever gave you the idea that Christmas Day is primarily for children? That might be your own opinion, which is great, but it's not a universally-agreed 'fact'.

Why do you think almost all of the shops are closed on that day - and almost all non-essential facilities and visitor attractions are closed that day, even though they are open just about every other day?

If Christmas were only really important to kids, you'd see all of these facilities open as normal - staffed and patronised by the many childfree adults and those with grown-up children, as it would just be another ordinary day to them.

I also find talk of the 'magic' of Christmas twee and annoying. It's a weird abstract concept that's invoked as some kind of automatic trump card to avoid having to explain or justify what it even is: it's just some unquestionable accepted 'fact'. Why is some imagined 'magic' more important than (or even different from) 'a special time spent with family and friends - which most people of all ages enjoy very much'?

Can those with elderly parents invoke 'the magic of sharing your loved ones' precious twilight memories', or are only young children allowed 'magic'?

@julieca

Also why challenge a manager if nothing will change as a result except that you will be marked forever as a selfish cow. No point.

Agree. I’ve challenged management on this. All it did was get out to the parents and give them a target for the exact behaviour that DancingQueen is displaying here. I’m working my 7th Xmas in a row this year and no sign of the culture changing. Sadly it’s not male-dominated, either. The opposite.

@youvegottenminuteslynn Hear hear. I think some posters would do well to remember that childless doesn’t mean childfree by choice. I lost the ability to have any children when I was 32 - is this my future now until I retire, never having a Christmas off?

I don’t think parents should automatically have preference for Christmas- it’s a special time for lots of people, not just those with children and generally people won’t be out at work for the whole of the day anyway. We have some general principles for deciding on holidays, the first one of which is fairness. School holidays are “peak weeks” for everyone because they’re either at the height of summer or around festivals and bank holidays, it’s not difficult to see why a childless person would want those times off too.

There are other factors too- shift patterns etc might make it difficult for someone to travel to be with relatives. I’d happily swap shifts around so that someone wouldn’t be alone for the whole of Christmas Day, even if it meant I’d miss a bit of mine with my family.

You chastise me for being unable to accept other peoples view points and yet it would seem that I'm not allowed to have mine. I have been hounded by numerous people on this thread for having an opposing view point. Am I not entitled to that?

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but this is a busy online discussion forum, so people disagreeing with your unpopular opinion is not taking away your entitlement to hold it.

Most adults engaging with the forum will understand this - although the vast majority will use respect and reasoning to convey and justify their own viewpoints and arguments, rather than just shouting nasty insults at those with differing/opposing viewpoints.

Summed up perfectly @youvegottenminuteslynn

@AudacityBaby I am sorry to hear that. If I found myself in a job like that I would be saying I was a devout Christian and threatening religious discrimination if other people had been given annual leave for religious days.

It’s also worth remembering that Christmas is often a family time even for people of non Christian religions simply because it’s nationally a time when most people don’t have to work. I know lots of Muslims who get together with family at Christmas because it’s a good opportunity to spend time together (and Christmas dinner is yummy!)

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll I agree. You see plenty of adults without children going to stately home celebrations all lit up for Christmas or Christmas markets.

I know only @julieca has answered my question, and shes not an advocate of christmas is only for young children, but im going to base this off her answer. I asked if christmas is only for young children what age do parents commit to always working christmas again so parents with ypunger children have it off, Julieca answered 11 which seems reasonable.

So imagine this society, you are 12, both your parents now have to work christmas because thry both work with parents of younger children. This continues until you leave home. You move a couple of hours away to uni and get a part time job. You cant have time off over christmas because you work with parents of young children. You find out you are infertile. Your sister has children a few years later, you dont get to spend any chistmases with them. Your parents also dont, they are still working christmases. Eventually your parents retire, your sisters children are over 11, so neither of you can see your parents on christmas day. Your dad dies, your mother spends the rest of her christmases alone. Shes terminally ill, you know she will die not long after christmas, you cant even get that one christmas off to visit her. A few years later your sister gets cancer, her children are grown and working, she spends christmas alone. When you eventually retire your neices and nephews would love to have you round for christmas but they cant, they are working.

If that really is the world you are arguing for, the world you are entitled to, if you are happy to live 80 years and only have 11 'magical' christmases, 22 give or take a few if you have children, then I dont want to be in your world, in your society, its bleak and joyless and the gains are outweighed by the losses.

Now imagine a society where you get to spend every other christmas, for example, with family, any of your family. Seems a bit more joyful and magical to me.

Last place I worked at, I was distinctly uncomfortable that the manager straight out said I would have priority on the holidays and roster, as I had kids, and the others didn't. Given my 'kids' were 17 and 15, I thought that possibly, just possibly, if I ended up working Christmas Day, their joyous little hearts wouldn't break, and made it clear I was happy to be the same priority for these things as other members of the team, who would equally want to spend time with their friends or family - some of whom had parents with terminal illnesses.

The reality is that a lot of people have to work Christmas Day, the world doesn't stop spinning - we still need the doctors, the nurses, the firefighters, the ambulance crews, the petrol station workers, and I'm so grateful to them every year, and aware that they are sacrificing their Christmas Day when they'd far prefer to be having the day off with their children, their parents, their friends. Their children, their parents, their friends, just have to suck it up buttercup.

@Toomanyradishes

I know only *@julieca* has answered my question, and shes not an advocate of christmas is only for young children, but im going to base this off her answer. I asked if christmas is only for young children what age do parents commit to always working christmas again so parents with ypunger children have it off, Julieca answered 11 which seems reasonable.

So imagine this society, you are 12, both your parents now have to work christmas because thry both work with parents of younger children. This continues until you leave home. You move a couple of hours away to uni and get a part time job. You cant have time off over christmas because you work with parents of young children. You find out you are infertile. Your sister has children a few years later, you dont get to spend any chistmases with them. Your parents also dont, they are still working christmases. Eventually your parents retire, your sisters children are over 11, so neither of you can see your parents on christmas day. Your dad dies, your mother spends the rest of her christmases alone. Shes terminally ill, you know she will die not long after christmas, you cant even get that one christmas off to visit her. A few years later your sister gets cancer, her children are grown and working, she spends christmas alone. When you eventually retire your neices and nephews would love to have you round for christmas but they cant, they are working.

If that really is the world you are arguing for, the world you are entitled to, if you are happy to live 80 years and only have 11 'magical' christmases, 22 give or take a few if you have children, then I dont want to be in your world, in your society, its bleak and joyless and the gains are outweighed by the losses.

Now imagine a society where you get to spend every other christmas, for example, with family, any of your family. Seems a bit more joyful and magical to me.

This 👏

Thankfully I don’t live or work in a world where parents (I am one) get priority for any holidays. Everyone is treated equally regardless of your home circumstances.