AIBU to think parents shouldn't get preferential treatment when it comes to time off work?

[KwestTurkey]

I just read an article on Facebook about this. A parent had asked a childfree colleague if she could have some of her saved holiday days and was refused (understandably).

That's obviously a CF request. But in general, what do you think about parents and holiday requests Vs childfree colleagues?

I don't believe parents should be given priority when it comes to time off on any holiday, be it summer or Christmas etc.. I think it should always, generally, work on a first come first served basis. The amount of times I was refused any sort of time off in the summer because every single parent in the office had booked off the summer and they were given first dibs on those dates used to annoy me.

I'm a parent now but my opinion hasn't changed on that. I think if someone childfree has gotten there with the request before you then that's tough.

Same with Christmas, if you work a job that requires Christmas working, I don't think it's fair to allow the same people off every Christmas year in year out.

It's definitely something I've experienced in my workplace before and after having DC and it feels very unfair.

I really don't think it's anyone elses responsibility to ensure you get time off during school holidays or things like Christmas and that a childfree colleague has as much right to book the time off as any parent.

So...

YANBU - parents shouldn't get preferential treatment or priority when it comes to time off work.

YABU - they should.

@DancingQueen85 but not one person on here seems to share this view.

No wonder. Your entitlement and reasoning are batshit crazy.

I bet my cotton socks that all those with young children on this thread who are saying Christmas is for children and parents should have priority wont be the first at putting their hand up for to do Christmas day shifts when their kids are older!

Very few people want to work Christmas day in my expierence, even those from a religious back ground that doesn't celebrate Christmas because it is still seen as 'family time'.
The only people I ha e come across to want to do it us for the extra money it those that have ni family they want to spend time with. I'm sure there maybe others but that's what I've come across in decades of shift work.

DancingQueen85 Do I take it then that you would be quite happy for any children you have (presuming you have children), to never spend another Christmas with you again once they reach adulthood, unless they have children?
This is not just about people without children not being able to spend time with their families on Christmas day, but also those families not being able to spend time with them. Why does somebody else's "need" to spend the day with their child trump mine? When I had to work on Christmas Day when DD was young, we simply "moved" Christmas to the 24th or Boxing day. Christmas Day was spent with her GP's and she loved the fact that she had 2 days of being made a fuss of. She is more devastated now, not being home for Christmas, than she ever was when she was young.

The needs of my elderly parents were far more important to me than the needs of someone else's kids. Thankfully I know more tolerant people than @DancingQueen85 as no one has ever expected me to give up my annual leave.

Absolutely everyone I know in real life would consider it selfish for a childless person take Christmas Day as leave over a family with young children but not one person on here seems to share this view

I can believe that. Before I changed career, literately every Christmas I was explicitly told I was selfish for not volunteering to work. I worked my fair share. Why does the fact I can’t have kids mean I should have to work every single year or be thought of as an inconsiderate bitch?

@DancingQueen85 I suspect you surround yourself with very like minded people and are therefore living in an echo box.

[quote DancingQueen85]@Toomanyradishes
So weird that you would look back at my previous posting history but yes
you are right I do have a real issue with it. I am genuinely shocked that the consensus on this thread seems to be that it is ok for a childless grown up to take Christmas Day off, leaving a parent not able to see their child on a day that is primarily for children. I have lots of friends who work for the NHS and the consensus with them has always been that those without children unofficially step back from having Christmas Day off to give priority to those with young kids. This seems very to me like the decent thing to do and I'm really surprised that others don't view it in the same way. [/quote]
You may think Xmas day is primarily for children.

I don’t.

I think it is for family - whatever form that family takes.

My dad worked every Xmas Day. It was fine. No tears, no wringing of hands.

Expecting one group (those without children) to always sacrifice in favour of those with children is selfish in the extreme.

@PurpleDaisies

I am genuinely shocked that the consensus on this thread seems to be that it is ok for a childless grown up to take Christmas Day off, leaving a parent not able to see their child on a day that is primarily for children.

I am genuinely pleased that the consensus on this thread seems to be that it is ok for a childless grown up to take Christmas Day of their fair share of the time leaving a parent to organise a different but lovely christmas for their child on a day that is an important national holiday, especially for Christians.

If you are the only childless member of the team, why should you never have the Christmas that you want?

I take exception to the notion that Christmas is primarily for children.

What rubbish. Children will barely remember the day, and can't appreciate or savor many of the secular and religious rituals, the related literature and history and music, the nostalgia, etc.

You could give them a pile of tat and some chocolate on any random morning and they wouldn't know the difference.

Absolutely everyone I know in real life would consider it selfish for a childless person take Christmas Day as leave over a family with young children but not one person on here seems to share this view
Thankfully my manager diesnt think like that and recognizes every person is an individual who has different needs and treats us all fairly. Which means everyone has to do something. She asks people what they want to do and what us their prefrnce and will try to accommodate it. If she diesnt get enough staff go cover she will see who had previous christmases off.She shortens the usual length of shift so everyone does the least time at work but has maximum time away from work. Seems fair enough. You are never going to keep everyone happy.

Added to my last post.
DD could not get Christmas 2019 off due to an entitled parent insisting that their Christmas should come first ("I've got young children dontcha know"), she was told "oh you'll have next year to spend Christmas with your family"...well we all know how Christmas 2020 panned out. Because she was prevented from taking Christmas 2019 off by said entitled parent, DD was robbed of the last Christmas my parents ever had as by December 2020 they were both dead. But hey, what do you care DancingQueen, you've admitted Christmas Day is not a problem for you. Have a lovely day with your children, many of us will not be with ours and one day you will be without yours. bet your attitude changes then.

It also isn't a need for a childless person to have Christmas Day off, particularly if it means that this prevents a parent from seeing there children

But people without children are children themselves. What about their parents seeing them?

Young children will accept whatever form Xmas Day is. On the day/on another day, both parents all day/split between parents/parent for part of day. It’s primarily about the excitement of presents.

For adults, Xmas is more about spending time with family. And everyone is equal in that. Age is irrelevant.

The people saying it's selfish of childless people to want to enjoy their Christmas lol and that Christmas is for children.. my dad was a police officer so wasn't around every single Christmas, I actually have no memory of him not being there on Christmas Day now because all of the Christmas' blur into one, I don't feel like I missed out on Christmas with my dad because some years he was there, some years he was there in the day but not at night and some Christmases he was there on Christmas Eve or Boxing Day but not Christmas Day, didn't really make a difference to me though because I had a great time anyway and don't feel deprived at all, and neither does my dad who probably missed some stuff but was there for other stuff to enjoy 🤷🏼‍♀️ surely when you decide on a specific career you accept that you won't be around for every single Christmas?

[quote DancingQueen85]@Toomanyradishes
Sounds like you have an awful lot of time on your hands if you're able to remember threads from months ago. Mumsnet is a very odd place. I have no sense of entitlement as I don't have to work in the school holidays so none of this effects me. However when I have in been in previous roles pre children and colleagues with young children wanted certain dates off during the school holidays, there was no resentment from anyone about them having the time off because were grownups able to put the needs of children above our own.[/quote]
It's not being a grown up to put other peoples children above your own needs. Your own children, yes but not other peoples.

Other peoples children don't trump your own circumstances. It's just an entitled and selfish attitude.

This has reminded me once again what an odd place mumsnet is

Yes, it lets folk spout nonsense like “Xmas is for children” and “those without children matter less than those with children”.

And my personal favourite - “those children are going to grow up and wipe your bum”. Which suggests that only those children who are able to be employed in the care industry in the future actually matter. What about People who are not able to join the workforce? Are they worthy of less consideration?

I posted on here on Thursday. I absolutely can not see any logic in 'kids won't get over seeing their parents on Christmas day'. Of course they do. My dad was in the police. Its really fine.

So I was already on that side of this. But then Thursday afternoon my mum died. She was fine and then not. Last Christmas was her last Christmas. I don't get another one.

I am her child and she is my mum and I dont get another Christmas. That's more devastating than dad nor being there Christmas morning. That didn't hurt or upset me in anyway. This has broken me

People who dont have kids still have families. Still have people they want to spend time with, people they want to be with.

Honestly, if I had know last year was my last christmas, nor a chance would I have prirorised, someone who had kids just because 'kids will be upset'.

Having kids does not make us the centre of everyone else's lives. Everyone else's lives are important too.

And let's be honest (since some people are not) most parents being home at Christmas is about them. Its nor about the kids. They know the kids will be fine. Ita that weird thing lots of parents do.....use the 'oh my poor kids' to achieve something that is purley selfish

Also just to add, I thought my dad was a badass superhero when I was a kid so him not being there on Christmas Day really didn't affect me, I imagined he was out there saving the world haha

@Darkpheonix I’m so sorry about your mum .

@Darkpheonix

I posted on here on Thursday. I absolutely can not see any logic in 'kids won't get over seeing their parents on Christmas day'. Of course they do. My dad was in the police. Its really fine.

So I was already on that side of this. But then Thursday afternoon my mum died. She was fine and then not. Last Christmas was her last Christmas. I don't get another one.

I am her child and she is my mum and I dont get another Christmas. That's more devastating than dad nor being there Christmas morning. That didn't hurt or upset me in anyway. This has broken me

People who dont have kids still have families. Still have people they want to spend time with, people they want to be with.

Honestly, if I had know last year was my last christmas, nor a chance would I have prirorised, someone who had kids just because 'kids will be upset'.

Having kids does not make us the centre of everyone else's lives. Everyone else's lives are important too.

And let's be honest (since some people are not) most parents being home at Christmas is about them. Its nor about the kids. They know the kids will be fine. Ita that weird thing lots of parents do.....use the 'oh my poor kids' to achieve something that is purley selfish

My sympathies for your loss.

those who have lost a dearly loved friend/relative know that special days are bittersweet with memories.

We all have regrets over missed opportunities, but over time, the happy memories have grown stronger for me.

I’d give anything for one last Xmas with my parents. The heartbreak over their slow mental and physical decline, and the sense of loss that started long before their deaths will never leave me.

@Keke94LND

The people saying it's selfish of childless people to want to enjoy their Christmas lol and that Christmas is for children.. my dad was a police officer so wasn't around every single Christmas, I actually have no memory of him not being there on Christmas Day now because all of the Christmas' blur into one, I don't feel like I missed out on Christmas with my dad because some years he was there, some years he was there in the day but not at night and some Christmases he was there on Christmas Eve or Boxing Day but not Christmas Day, didn't really make a difference to me though because I had a great time anyway and don't feel deprived at all, and neither does my dad who probably missed some stuff but was there for other stuff to enjoy 🤷🏼‍♀️ surely when you decide on a specific career you accept that you won't be around for every single Christmas?

I can identify with this. My dad was police too, and now both DH and I work an on call job.

My dh volunteers to do a disproportionate number of Christmases so the junior staff members who often live further away from their families can get home for a few days. Our kids love Christmas whatever form it takes, if you can’t do everything on the day, you make up for it another day.

I am sad that Christmas (which is supposed to be about goodwill to all men and God’s love freely given to the world) is reduced to people trying to make a perfect day for themselves and their own little family, without a thought for how that might impact others. Workplaces should be fair and unless people particularly volunteer for Christmas or have a specific reason to opt out one year like a terminally ill spouse for example, it should be shared out.

[quote DancingQueen85]@Toomanyradishes
You absolutely don't have to justify your lifestyle to me. I have absolutely no interest in it. I don't think this was even your thread so not sure why you are so invested in my response to the OP's question

As a side note. My parents would be horrified if they thought that by spending Christmas Day with them it meant that a child was wasn't able to see their parents.

@PurpleDaisies
Ok you are right, it is not a need. That was the wrong choice of words. It also isn't a need for a childless person to have Christmas Day off, particularly if it means that this prevents a parent from seeing there children.

This has reminded me once again what an odd place mumsnet is. Absolutely everyone I know in real life would consider it selfish for a childless person take Christmas Day as leave over a family with young children but not one person on here seems to share this view. Going to step away from the thread now as it is making me cross and I have a lovely Christmassy day planned with my kids. [/quote]
Considering the number of people on this thread who have expressed how difficult it is being infertile / having wanted children but not had them for other reasons, the last part of your post is so unbearably smug and needless. It's exactly the type of tone and comment that people who demand priority for days off due to being a parent use.

If I never have children, I should give up seeing my parents on Christmas Day for the rest of my working life so that any colleagues with children don't have to work that day? Really?

You say your parents would be horrified if you didn't have kids but took Christmas Day off over a colleague with kids? With respect, that's easy to say when you'll never be in that position (as you do have kids) so they'll never see you having to make that choice.

I'm surprised every single person you know agrees with you on this. I would suggest that either you surround yourself with an echo chamber of people who believe parents are more important than childless people, or you don't actually know what they think and they are more fair and able to see all sides of this than you are.

Again, the last bit of your post is so unbelievably smug that it is spiteful.

As a side note. My parents would be horrified if they thought that by spending Christmas Day with them it meant that a child was wasn't able to see their parents

I would imagine most parents give a shit or even care to know what their adult child's colleagues are doing on Christmas day or who was rota'd on to work at their child's workplace that day.

Why would they?

As a side note. My parents would be horrified if they thought that by spending Christmas Day with them it meant that a child was wasn't able to see their parents
Why would elderly parents ts need to know what's going in with the Christmas work rita?
Why would I want them to feel guilty? I wouldn't even tell them what the work plan were.
Anyway. Very few parents are going to be working all morning, afternoon and evening on Christmas day and nit seeing their kids. If it's about opening presents depending on dads shift it was dine in Christmas eve or when he came home in the afternoon. Neither me or any if my siblings gave been traumatised by a parent working on Christmas day!

Out of interest to the people who are adamant parents should get holiday off at the expense of non parents, at what age of child does that stop? If you are vehement that christmas is most important for small children, over recently widowed children, or a parents last christmas, what age are your children going to be when you commit to always working christmas again so that people with younger children get it off?