DH wants MIL to come to us for Christmas

[Macmoominmamma]

Hi all

Your opinions please!

For context - MIL went into nursing home Feb 2020 at age of 84. She's been incredibly independent for past 50 years but now can't cope living on her own. Diagnosed with dementia, which fluctuates. She is urine incontinent, can't go up or down stairs, doesn't walk far, can't work TV or mobile phone, despite being shown many many times. She lives 100 miles away from us and her other DS lives in same village as her.

DH asked me last night if she could come to ours for Christmas, coming 23rd Dec and leaving Boxing Day. We have 2 kids, aged 15 and 9. It is 9 year olds birthday Christmas Eve (will be 10 then). I have pointed out the distance for her to travel, that she is incontinent, has dementia, she can't walk up steps (our WCs are not on ground floor), but DH says he will take her to a hotel and they will stay there overnight and come to our home for feeding, present opening etc.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this - on the one hand, it would be nice to have her, and don't want her to spend Christmas at Nursing Home, but on the other hand I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, and just a bit miserable for the kids to have their dad away from them over Christmas Day and birthday.

DH appears to have thought this through and is pretty set on it.
AIBU to put a spanner in the works by saying no?

YANBU - yes tell him it's a no
YABU - she should come.

I really feel for your DH - his mum is slipping away and he wants a last, perfect Christmas with her. But having had two relatives succumb to dementia, I have to agree with PP. This has disaster written all over it. He may need to make peace with the idea that there will be no more chances to be with the woman she was, even though she is physically still here. My grandmother had dementia and my parents were visiting her regularly while I lived in a different country. She was admitted to a specialist home and when I flew over to see her, having not seen her for 8 months, my mother tried to warn me how much she had deteriorated but it was still a shock. She had no memory of me, at all, and while she was happy and chatty, it killed me that she didn't know who I was and was making small talk with me like a polite stranger. I had to excuse myself, locked myself in a toilet and cried. One of the staff members heard me sobbing and brought me a cup of tea. It is awful to see that person sitting right in front of you but you can't tell them all the things you want to say now that you are running out of time or share a memory. Never mind if they are confused, scared, angry and then the physical demands of their body. Whatever your DH is imagining Christmas will be like, it won't. It will break his heart. I would talk to the care home and combine forces to gently talk him out of this house and give him an alternative plan with her that will ease his heart a little.

@Macmoominmamma, if you are considering an Airbnb, could you consider a larger one nearer to where she lives for you to all stay in together? Less travelling for mil and DH won't miss out on birthday/Christmas moments. BIL might be able to join you too.

The other thing to consider is that 24/7 caring is fucking exhausting, mentally and physically. Even if you are used to regularly caring for the person. I spend one day a week with my DParents to give dad a break plus usually 2 hours 3 days a week. So I know mums care needs and how to look after her. Even so I find overnights absolutely draining - and I don't have to worry about mum doing something risky.
Your DP has never cared for her in 2 years. It's a very naive idea

@Muchmorethan

The car journey alone sounds terrifying. When was she last in a car for that length of time. What if she panics and tries to get out?

OMG, this reminded me of when dh had Fil with dementia in the car - he was taking him across London to stay with BiL and SiL for a few days, to give me a break. He tried to get out in the middle of heavy traffic!

Because visiting in a nursing home fir a couple of hours will have given him absolutely no idea at all

Here's my experience I hope @Macmoominmamma 's DH will take it to heart.

My darling mum had dementia and was in a home. Having her come for Christmas dinner worked for the first two years BUT her home was nearby, it wasn't overnight, and we have a ground floor WC. And my brother did the transport.

But the time came when even coming to our house (a 3 minute drive) for dinner and presents was too much for her. She was confused and fretful at the 'bustle' and the disruption of her routine and being away from her familiar surroundings. She was anxious about toileting and incontinence, even with 'pads'. She didn't say anything, but you could see and feel it in her.

I am ashamed to say that I kept it up a year longer than I should have. My dear brother gently pointed out to me that I was doing it for ME, not for Mum. That it was not a kindness to her, it was in fact stressful and unsettling. And that I had no reason to feel guilt or shame about her being in a home. She was safe, secure in her surroundings, and treated with respect and care by the staff. Staff that was well trained and knew how to care for dementia patients.

The home did a luncheon every Christmas for patients and their families. So instead of bringing her to ours, we had a little bit of lunch with her and spent a few hours in her 'home' then came home for our Xmas Dinner and party. It was so much more peaceful and restful for her, and for us.

We lost her to Covid this past February. Even though she didn't know who I was for the last couple of years and couldn't communicate, I still miss her terribly. Just sitting with her and holding her hand was enough to give me a feeling of security and love that only a mother can give.

So, @Macmoominmamma 's DH, if you read this, as much as you may want your Mum with you at Xmas, do stop and think if you're really doing it for her, or for you.

@krustykittens

I really feel for your DH - his mum is slipping away and he wants a last, perfect Christmas with her. But having had two relatives succumb to dementia, I have to agree with PP. This has disaster written all over it. He may need to make peace with the idea that there will be no more chances to be with the woman she was, even though she is physically still here. My grandmother had dementia and my parents were visiting her regularly while I lived in a different country. She was admitted to a specialist home and when I flew over to see her, having not seen her for 8 months, my mother tried to warn me how much she had deteriorated but it was still a shock. She had no memory of me, at all, and while she was happy and chatty, it killed me that she didn't know who I was and was making small talk with me like a polite stranger. I had to excuse myself, locked myself in a toilet and cried. One of the staff members heard me sobbing and brought me a cup of tea. It is awful to see that person sitting right in front of you but you can't tell them all the things you want to say now that you are running out of time or share a memory. Never mind if they are confused, scared, angry and then the physical demands of their body. Whatever your DH is imagining Christmas will be like, it won't. It will break his heart. I would talk to the care home and combine forces to gently talk him out of this house and give him an alternative plan with her that will ease his heart a little.

👆100%.

The other thing is that a huge % of people with dementia have extreme noise sensitivity. You’ve got DC, it’s Xmas, there’s a birthday ….. there will be tonnes of noise. Your DH sounds lovely and caring for his mum but I think he’s being naive and looking through rose tinted glasses. What he is proposing is could cause his mum harm - the polar opposite of what he wants.

OP google delirium and dementia. It is a reduction in mental capacity brought on by several things including changes in routine and removing the person from their familiar surroundings. Hospital stays are a big cause and moving people with dementia from their home is another one. They key part of it all is that it hastens mental decline and much of the decline is not recoverable. Chat with DH about this and the specific medical risk of taking his mother out of her nursing home for Christmas, I personally would find a work around that would keep her in her home. Hope you can find a way to make it work for all.

I think for me this would depend on how advanced her dementia is. If she is lucid, and aware of who her family are and aware it is Christmas and is expressing a wish to try and join you all I would probably try. Being incontinent of urine usually means you wear pads all the time and need to change them every few hours. That is not too taxing. If she knows when she needs bowels open that is good and a commode would be fine. Some people line the commode pan with an incontinence pad and fold the whole lot into a plastic bag afterwards which minimises the clearing up. The journey does not have to be awful. They could break it up with a stop for lunch in a service station. It might be fine.
If she appears not to be enjoying herself I assume he could take her home again if that is what she wishes.
.
If however, she is already very confused and disorientated, I would try and visit around Christmas instead.

For when your DH reads this, you need to understand someone will have to help her with toileting, changing clothes and washing her when she’s incontinent. If he leaves her even just changing the pads for 2 days he could send her back to the nursing home red raw and then develop a nasty skin infection. Please ask the nursing home what level of care she needs and what he will have to do for her and if he’s willing to change her underwear and wash her each time or if she would be willing for him to do this.

I'm sure your dh comes from a good place but he isn't thinking this though. His mother will likely to become quite upset with the unfamiliar surroundings. It is likely to disoriented her further which is likely to become distressing, both for her and the rest of you. DH also needs to think more practically. What height does the commode need to be? What kind of seating can she tolerate, for how long? At what height? What about her bed? Is it a profiling bed, air mattress, bed lever? Does she use any aids to walk? Will those fit around your house? Any visual problems? Can she manage the step up to your front door? What about her medications? Does anything need regular monitoring? Blood pressure, BM's etc? What about her skin? Does she have any sores? Can you continue with their treatment? How is her swallow? Is she at risk of choking? Is she on a staged diet or does she have thicken fluid? Does she normally drink from a beaker? What kind of cutlery / plates does she use? Can she become agitated and physically aggressive? Does she sleep at night? Do you have a thick carpet? Rugs? Can she manage these? Will the general noise of Christmas at your house distress her? Then you have COVID. She will likely have to isolate in her room for 10 days on her return. Is this the best thing for her? And that's if the nursing home agree to her going at all (which I doubt). Honestly, you dh needs to ask himself if he is doing this for her or for him, and I mean that kindly.

Only someone without any knowledge or first hand experience of caring for someone with dementia would think this is a good idea. I was a dementia nurse specialist and can only strongly advice against the idea. Much better to go and pay her a visit over the holiday season.

More likely we will rent an AirBnB if we can over Christmas and visit her for the day. That seems more workable.

This is exactly what we did for a few years @Macmoominmamma. There's a nice touristy city about half an hour from my MIL's care home (which is three hours from me and two from my SIL). My SIL found a nice airbnb that could accommodate her family for three or four days over Christmas, and me and my DD's for a night or two. It meant we could have a lovely Christmas together, and accommodate MIL's needs each year.

The first year we picked her up and brought her to the house for the day itself (and intended to continue for Boxing Day as well), but it didn't take us long to realise that she couldn't really cope with the numbers and a house she didn't know. So instead we went to visit her the next day. And that's how it worked for the next two Christmases. We were near to her so we could have Christmasy visits to her (for our benefit to be honest) and had fun times as a family, too.

I honestly think it's the perfect answer, if you don't have Christmas commitments to others that keep you at home. I thought my (very traditionalist) young adult kids would balk at Christmas away from home, but it turned into a bit of a holiday too and they were fine with it.

@SeaToSki

OP google delirium and dementia. It is a reduction in mental capacity brought on by several things including changes in routine and removing the person from their familiar surroundings. Hospital stays are a big cause and moving people with dementia from their home is another one. They key part of it all is that it hastens mental decline and much of the decline is not recoverable. Chat with DH about this and the specific medical risk of taking his mother out of her nursing home for Christmas, I personally would find a work around that would keep her in her home. Hope you can find a way to make it work for all.

Absolutely this. My grandfather never recovered from the holiday we'd planned as something lovely for him. Which was awful for us all. We really hadn't predicted it, because he was only slightly ill at that point, and seemed quite resilient. He just never knew where he was while we were away. And he didn't know what doors led where in the holiday home and got really really agitated and scared.

When we got back he'd lost every bit of physical confidence and spacial awareness, and never got it back. Which probably explains why I'm over-posting in this thread. I'd hate anyone to go through what he did, and I'd hate another family to feel the guilt that we did.

@HollyandIvyandAllThingsYule

I think OP meant for them to visit MIL at the care home. However that might not be workable as there’s no guarantee that multiple visitors would even be allowed.

A number of care homes have already announced that they're not allowing visitors between 23-27th Dec to allow for staff shortages etc. There's been a fair amount of coverage of this by Rights for Residents.

Really bad plan.

We now leave my lovely uncle in his care home on Christmas day as he gets so distressed when he is out and try to wander away from whichever family house he is.

Two years ago he and I spent quite a long time meandering round the streets while everyone else ate pudding as he couldn't settle at the table at all.

I found it really quite upsetting.

As others have pointed out, this is a total disaster in the making. She could end up hospitalised if she falls as a result of confusion in unfamiliar surroundings. Totally understandable that DH wants a family Christmas with his Mum, but sadly, that ship has sailed. The kindest thing he could do would be to go and stay nearby and spend lots of time with her, but in her usual surroundings and with people on hand to care for her. No reason why you can't all go and stay. Bonus - you could all have some time with his brother too.

Yabu, to vito it at all, it is probably her last Christmas being aware of who her ds even is, it may be her last alive. For your dh it may be the last year that she is his mum, recognising and loving him as her child. Let him have his time with his mum. That said, he needs to plan it depending on her condition, if she has dementia but is still relatively aware and alert and, incontinence aside, if she could cope with a journey and a stay at a suitable hotel or accommodation with her son then help him facilitate that imo.

It will be very upsetting for her to have her routine disrupted, and it would be unfair on her to expect her to travel so far and then stay in a hotel. Often people with dementia don't cope well away from their normal surroundings, and he may find she wants to go home shortly after arriving.

She will actually be fine in the nursing home.

Might add to my pp that when my mother also eventually moved to a care home, she was no longer barely aware that it was Christmas - even when there were twinkly trees and other decorations up - staff really used to make an effort. It meant nothing to her any more.

For her last Christmas before she moved to the care home, I took all the we all went to her for the day on the 25th - I took all the food and cooked - as less disorienting for her.

TBH we might as well not have bothered. She could hardly make the effort even to open her presents - and wasn’t remotely interested in them once she had - a far cry from pre dementia days! and the extra people and fuss evidently bothered her a good deal.

@lololololollll

My Dad is basically the same as her and my god I would clean his piss up every day til I die. ESPECIALLY at Xmas! Just me

And is that regardless of your Dad's wants or boundaries @lololololollll?

My dear Grandad became doubly incontinent very shortly before he was taken into the hospice. He wasn't able to clean himself up and as an extremely proud man was absolutely horrified and very deeply distressed at the thought of it being his daughter or me to do it.

Thankfully a long standing male friend (and absolute angel on earth) lived very close by and stepped in to help. It was still awful and undignified for my poor Grandad but his friend was very matter of fact and made light of it in an unemotional way that we never could have. He made it as bearable as having your backside wiped by someone could ever be, much like wonderful care home nurses do.

It's not always about what we would do for them, but what they are comfortable with receiving from us. Everyone deserves to retain as much dignity as possible.

My Dad is basically the same as her and my god I would clean his piss up every day til I die. ESPECIALLY at Xmas! Just me

But it's not about you. The effect on the person with dementia has to be the prime concern, and honestly it really does upset them. Taking a parent for a few hours might be okay, but a 200 mile round trip and a stay in a hotel might well make the MIL's condition worse.

What about making her visit the 28th-30th instead? or everyone staying in a hotel by her care home for a couple of days after Christmas?

Sadly people in care homes with dementia deteriorated quite badly over lockdown, and your MIL's stroke is likely to have caused vascular dementia which also causes deterioration.

My mother had a mildish stroke in her 80s which left her still able to live semi-independently with carers coming in daily. However, she deteriorated steadily and Christmas became particularly problematic because increasingly she just didn't understand it. We always used to have her round to ours, but it became a nightmare because she didn't understand why her routine was so different, and she got bad tempered because she didn't want to admit that she didn't understand. I remember she used to become particularly bad-tempered about the fact that her newspaper hadn't arrived.

Ultimately she went into a home in mid 2019 where she was happier if only because she was much less bored, but with lockdown her cognition deteriorated dramatically. For Christmas 2019 we went to see her before and after Christmas Day, and it worked much better than dragging her over to ours; the following Christmas of course no-one was going anywhere. She died this year, and I have to say to all the would-be guilt-trippers that I don't feel in the least guilty that I didn't try to make her travel to our house for the last two Christmases.

In theory it’s a lovely idea for you all to put yourselves out so that she can spend Christmas with her family but would it all be too much for her? The journey, different surroundings, toileting issues, etc etc??? How bad is her dementia? If it’s quite advanced I think you risk really unsettling her and possibly spoiling it for all concerned, your MIL in particular. I suppose it must be at the back of your DH’s mind that it could be her last Christmas with you (sorry if I’m being a bit premature but I don’t know how unwell she is) and if this is the case I can understand why he’s so keen.
My Brother manages a care home and they really go out of their way to make Christmas special for their residents. They play music and do activities suited to older people. Maybe she would be happier staying where she is, being looked after by professional carers (I’m thinking toileting/washing etc) and not having to travel in the cold. It’s a difficult one OP, I don’t envy you having to make the decision