DH wants MIL to come to us for Christmas

[Macmoominmamma]

Hi all

Your opinions please!

For context - MIL went into nursing home Feb 2020 at age of 84. She's been incredibly independent for past 50 years but now can't cope living on her own. Diagnosed with dementia, which fluctuates. She is urine incontinent, can't go up or down stairs, doesn't walk far, can't work TV or mobile phone, despite being shown many many times. She lives 100 miles away from us and her other DS lives in same village as her.

DH asked me last night if she could come to ours for Christmas, coming 23rd Dec and leaving Boxing Day. We have 2 kids, aged 15 and 9. It is 9 year olds birthday Christmas Eve (will be 10 then). I have pointed out the distance for her to travel, that she is incontinent, has dementia, she can't walk up steps (our WCs are not on ground floor), but DH says he will take her to a hotel and they will stay there overnight and come to our home for feeding, present opening etc.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this - on the one hand, it would be nice to have her, and don't want her to spend Christmas at Nursing Home, but on the other hand I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, and just a bit miserable for the kids to have their dad away from them over Christmas Day and birthday.

DH appears to have thought this through and is pretty set on it.
AIBU to put a spanner in the works by saying no?

YANBU - yes tell him it's a no
YABU - she should come.

@HelloDulling

A commode is all very well, but if she’s incontinent, she’s incontinent. He will need to change her clothes, make sure she’s clean and dry, change sheets/use pads on the bed, potentially clean sofa cushions, car seats, hotel chairs.

Yep. He will need to change her incontinence pads, wash her private parts, change her pants and clothes.

He will need to take plastic fitted sheet for the bed.

More likely we will rent an AirBnB if we can over Christmas and visit her for the day. That seems more workable

The only way that would work is that he will have to be with her at the flat from her arrival to departure. Thus he will only see you and the kids when you visit.

He will have to find an airbnb ground floor flat.

And one that accepts the elderly and infirm.

You go to her with the sweetest will in the world who is your OH doing it for? My grandma had dementia and bless her she was ok in her routine but she got to the point when we couldn’t manage her at home or even visiting our home. Unless your oh is a trained medic can he deal with medication, toiletting, her general needs/ wants etc. 3 days is a long time. I totally get it’s Christmas and he wants to have her but is it safe, what if she fell ended up in hospital? That would be dreadful. Christmas is just a date in the calendar - you can celebrate it any day, any where and with whoever

I think OP meant for them to visit MIL at the care home. However that might not be workable as there’s no guarantee that multiple visitors would even be allowed.

Ah ok, that makes more sense, but it will be difficult to find at this point.

@Pointynoseowner

He sounds like a wonderful caring man. It's one Christmas FFS, you will have many many Christmases together, this may be the last one he has with his mum. Even if next year she is still alive ,with advancing dementia she won't be the mum he clearly loves. Give him the support and love to do what he needs to do .

Do you have any idea what someone with dementia needs? FFS (as you said yourself?)

So many utterly naive people on this thread. The poor woman.

Gosh your DH sounds lovely and it sounds as if yes, he is prepared to do everything for her, even staying with her in the hotel so as not to make any extra work for you. Imo it’s not your place to stand in his way. I would go out if my way to help if this was my DH, regardless of my own preferences on this occasion.

And yes, I do know what it’s like to care for someone with dementia!
The point here though is that it’s the DH who will be doing everything.

For all the reasons in previous posts, this is a terrible idea. Also, if she is taken out of her care home and is then around Heaven knows how many other people in a hotel and at your house, will they be prepared for her to go back there (because Covid) ? How would that work

I hope a sensible way can be found for your DH to spend time with her that is safe and minimises the impact on her.

That all sounds good OP, speak to the care home and take it from there. Especially as she has been there for a while, even given her potentially deteriorating health, they should be able to give good guidance as to what would be a good plan for you all. You can incorporate all that with your own celebrations. I know that my DM in similar circumstances loved us to visit but she couldn't cope with much longer than an hour even if it was just me or me and DH, she just got so tired. I think being up there for a few days and having short but more frequent visits might be a plan. Even if you are not all allowed in, she might enjoy a short walk in a chair or to watch the DC running about outside, maybe take a ball or something they can play with.

No @Coronawireless the point is - is it a good idea for his mom. Will it distress her? That is the starting point - the DH's wants come way down on his mother's needs.

Also, some great information / resources online, OP, (e.g. dementia uk, alzheimer's society) if your husband is in a place to be able to look at them

The OH's idea was a fucking stupid one, but so were the suggestions that a whole family troop in and out of the care home multiple times. Clearly those people have no skin in the game. As for those who asked 'what the children wanted'. It really, really isn't all about the children.

Oh and what is this magic thing that happens to transform a woman, once dementing and in a care setting, into a 'lady'?

One thread, so much utter bollocks.

[quote lololololollll]@saraclara wow defensive much. What I meant is that's just what I would do, don't think you need to be so aggressive. I appreciate others have different ways of looking at things, hence why I said "just me". No sarcasm involved. Don't judge me by your own standards as I guess that's how you came up with that one[/quote]
What you would do? So you're not cleaning up your dad's numerous times a day everyday at the moment, you just think that you would in order to have a nice Christmas? Run along, you have no idea. People who do are talking sense here.

@Coronawireless

And yes, I do know what it’s like to care for someone with dementia! The point here though is that it’s the DH who will be doing everything.

That doesn't mean that it's the best thing for his Mum!

She might not want him to do personal care/get him dressed.

He might not even be able to lift/support her properly!

Bear in mind that the home may say she needs to self-isolate when she returns there, especially after being in a hotel which the home could consider to be high risk.

They may even consider an extended visit to family (especially with unvaccinated children) high risk and require her to self-isolate - especially as you're some distance away and your local case rates could be much higher.

The rules on this can be found here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes#when-different-visiting-arrangements-are-needed

The home has to individually access these risks on residents leaving their care home and, like I say, if your case rates are much higher than where she lives it could have consequences.

@loveandkindness

Wouldn't your children want Granny there to see them open their presents?

There are four of you in your family. Have you asked your children what they want?

My DD (11)utterly adored my mum, loved spending time with her. Then mum had a stroke. She is now paralysed and can't speak. DD finds it very distressing to be with her now and feels huge guilt because she feels like that. DM has brain damage and, so cruelly, isn't really that interested in DD any more. Before she was th apple of DM's eye. Dd also finds this very difficult to deal with.

You may be right however maybe ops children feel the same as my DD

DH spending some time with his mum, in familiar surroundings will leave him with better memories than looking back on her possibly last Christmas as a fraught time. Christmas is always taunted with sadness for loved ones no longer here, but if her visiting your home is truly awful for her and in return him and his family, the guilt he might feel in years to come will make his memories of this Christmas upsetting.

To echo PP, this sounds well intentioned but potentially hugely upsetting and disorientating for your MIL.
We have had a similar situation in my family and thankfully Covid has meant we will no longer do this- the forced break has made us realise how strange it was for everyone to be put in this stressful and upsetting situation.
I would suggest getting an Airbnb near her home and visiting her on Christmas Day- or at the very most taking her out for the day either to your Airbnb or to the house of the relative who lives locally to her home. That way she wakes up where she is used to, has breakfast as normal, and goes to bed as normal. Not at a strange place!
I do also think it's a lot for your children, your husbands plan. I had grandparents with Alzheimer's and we spent a lot of time together at our house, but they never stayed the night and I am aware in retrospect how frightening or uncomfortable some moments were. I'm very glad we had all that time together, but I also think it could have been much more difficult if my dad had insisted on plans like your husbands suggestion.
Regular safe routine visits to her nursing home surely would be more appreciated by your MIL than one extended one that leaves her and your family vulnerable in many ways.

I can only relate our experience with FiL, who had dementia.

For his first Christmas after he moved into a care home (he had lived with us for a while but I couldn’t cope any more) we brought him home for a couple of nights for Christmas, thinking he’d enjoy it, since he’d always enjoyed Christmas with us before.

It was a bad mistake, and I will admit that the care home staff had warmed us that it would not be the best idea.

So we ignored their advice, not having realised that dementia would make such a difference. By then he was used to the care home routine - and familiar routine is so important with dementia - that he was confused and worried for much of the time. E.g. he was thinking it was his own house and that there were jobs he should be doing, but he couldn’t remember what. Also, for the first time he started asking where MiL (dead 10 years) was.

For subsequent Christmases we left him where he was, in his safe, familiar routine, but would visit on Christmas Eve or soon after the 25th.

TBH from experience, once someone has dementia Christmas ceases to hold much importance - the person may not even be aware of it, or only vaguely. (My mother also had dementia, so I was very familiar with 2 cases.)

While I understand absolutely the feeling that it’s ‘wrong’ to leave someone in a care home at Christmas, since we felt exactly that with FiL, it honestly may not be in the person’s best interests.

Please feel free to show this post to your dh.

@Macmoominmamma

Thank you so much for all your opinions and suggestions ladies. I have read every single one and thank you for taking time to comment.

DH is SO well intentioned but, as observed, is speaking emotionally, rather than considering practicalities. My initial response was it’s unworkable but I failed to see that he’s come up with this unworkable plan because it is SO important to him that he spends Christmas with his mum.

You have offered great insights. I think I will show DH the thread so that he can understand how difficult for his mum it will be for her with dementia. We are still getting used to it tbh. We need to put her at the centre of our plans and reconsider her new needs rather than assume she will be able to cope with what we would usually do at Christmas pre-Covid with her, when she would regularly travel to Scotland with us and the kids. She had a stroke Jan 2020 and went into a Nursing Home as couldn’t look after herself at home. It’s very sad to see her so debilitated and dependent after being so fiercely independent and a bit of a social butterfly.

We will definitely be speaking with the Nursing Home and if appropriate we will definitely speak with any hotel involved. More likely we will rent an AirBnB if we can over Christmas and visit her for the day. That seems more workable.

For the person who pointed out that one day I will be wanting my son to visit me on my last Christmas🥴 you do epitomise that urge that some people have to say something just a little bit shitty to people in difficult circumstances.

I'm really glad you've come to this landing - I hope you find a way to make Christmas with MIL happen, but even if you don't, your DH will be able to rest easier knowing that you both genuinely tried everything.

As for the one comment - there's always one, isn't there? You haven't said no to spending Christmas with MIL, you've just said no to an unworkable plan that will stress her out rather than make her happy. You're going to look into a much more sensible alternative.

Take care, OP. I sense Christmas is going to be more stressful than usual this year, and I hope you manage to find that balance between supporting your family and not neglecting your own needs.

I'm generally on the not a good idea side, but it depends how severe your MIL's dementia is. My father has had dementia for six years since diagnosis and in many ways functions very well. But he masks what he doesn't understand and I think sometimes he's in distress and not showing it. For instance, he can get lost and disorientated even in my house, which he's spent quite a lot of time in. He also struggles to remember who younger members of the family are, but hides this well. So I wonder what your MIL's levels of anxiety would be like and whether she would enjoy the trip or be confused about where she was and who all of you were. My guess is it wouldn't be a great experience for her.

@Akrotiri1

I understand his sentiments and must be so hard to have a vunerable parent 100 miles away at Christmas

However, from someone who works on a dementia unit of a nursing home, none of our residents would cope with the change in routine, let alone understand it is Christmas.......also don't forget the added complications from Covid.

Our residents are only allowed one visitor on Christmas day as the visiting area has to be sanitised after each visit, and that is after they have had a lateral flow test, so to take someone out of a nursing home will no doubt create additional issues.

Also wouldn't they have to isolate for 10 days when they got back ? DM spent 2 weeks isolating in a nursing home when she was released from hospital after a wrist fracture in March. It's definitely not worth that.

The car journey alone sounds terrifying. When was she last in a car for that length of time. What if she panics and tries to get out?