DH wants MIL to come to us for Christmas

[Macmoominmamma]

Hi all

Your opinions please!

For context - MIL went into nursing home Feb 2020 at age of 84. She's been incredibly independent for past 50 years but now can't cope living on her own. Diagnosed with dementia, which fluctuates. She is urine incontinent, can't go up or down stairs, doesn't walk far, can't work TV or mobile phone, despite being shown many many times. She lives 100 miles away from us and her other DS lives in same village as her.

DH asked me last night if she could come to ours for Christmas, coming 23rd Dec and leaving Boxing Day. We have 2 kids, aged 15 and 9. It is 9 year olds birthday Christmas Eve (will be 10 then). I have pointed out the distance for her to travel, that she is incontinent, has dementia, she can't walk up steps (our WCs are not on ground floor), but DH says he will take her to a hotel and they will stay there overnight and come to our home for feeding, present opening etc.
I honestly don't know how to feel about this - on the one hand, it would be nice to have her, and don't want her to spend Christmas at Nursing Home, but on the other hand I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, and just a bit miserable for the kids to have their dad away from them over Christmas Day and birthday.

DH appears to have thought this through and is pretty set on it.
AIBU to put a spanner in the works by saying no?

YANBU - yes tell him it's a no
YABU - she should come.

I think it’s lovely that your DH seems to have such a lovely relationship with his mum. I’m guessing she’ll wear some kind of incontinence pads?

It’ll be one Christmas and I think your DH realised it could be the last one where this is possible.

Yabu

No way for HER sake let alone yours - the poor woman would be confused & wouldn't appreciate it
What I would suggest is this get some self catering accommodation near her after Christmas - take your dc with you & IF she is well enough bring her over to a tea party (making sure the accommodation is suitable for a visit) perhaps if she is able to understand with a few presents & decorations
or visit her Christmas early afternoon or late morning in the nursing home & your family stay nearby & make it a mini holiday with dinner out & presents for your dc & tv etc.
Your dh probably doesn't want to accept how much she has deteriorated & misses the Christmases they use to have. The nursing home will make the most of Christmas for the people who live there

@loveandkindness

Wouldn't your children want Granny there to see them open their presents?

There are four of you in your family. Have you asked your children what they want?

Anyone that thinks its appropriate for a 9 year old to be involved in te decision making about the fitness of an elderly woman to make that kind of journey has clearly never dealt with a relative with dementia.

There are two adults in the family home, they and they alone should make any decisions.

Firstly, you need to speak to MIL. Would she understand enough to be able to make a
Decision herself. If not that discussions with the care team are next. Can you not recreate a Christmas with her before or after at her home? We have a fake Christmas every year and it’s fab.

Having seen first hand the effect of taking someone with dementia away from their familiar surroundings, I think HIBU. It was the trigger for a rapid decline.

It would be much kinder to leave her be and go and visit before or after the actual day.
BIL who lives nearer is better placed to pop in Christmas Morning.

@HikingforScenery

I think it’s lovely that your DH seems to have such a lovely relationship with his mum. I’m guessing she’ll wear some kind of incontinence pads?

It’ll be one Christmas and I think your DH realised it could be the last one where this is possible.

Yabu

Incontinence pads require frequent changing and washing, and skin care in an elderly person. Many need to lie down for this. Dignity, privacy, safe lifting and handling etc all need to be considered. Sentimentality really isn't kind in this situation.

He hasn't got many Christmas's with her left so you should definitely try and facilitate him spending Christmas with her. Would it be possible for you all t go to her and stay in a hotel nearby, she could come to your there for food and you'll see his DB and am sure you can plan a fun day out somewhere for 10 year olds birthday. If this is her last Christmas and he doesn't spend it with her somehow he'll never forgive you xx

I can totally understand him wanting her to come.

However I feel the logistics he is proposing have flaws.

For a start he'll have to stay with her and short visits to yours as you have no facilities.

It would be workable if you have a downstairs room you can transform for her and get a commode for the few days. You'd need to work with the home as well to check whether they think cognitively she can manage this?

The alternative would be you travelling to her and staying in a B and B or something and visiting her or having her Xmas day. Again you'd need to work with the home about what she'd need and also what their covid rules are during this time.

"It’ll be one Christmas and I think your DH realised it could be the last one where this is possible"

It's very likely that it's already impossible.

I can't help thinking that her dementia must either be not bad at all or that he is entirely clueless to be considering this.

Even taking the dementia out of it, she is elderly & used to a routine & a particular environment.

A long drive, days in a busy house & nights in a hotel-how many elderly people want that?

Not a good idea really. Putting an elderly lady in a completely different environment with a total change in her routine may cause her distress and anxiety. If she is a nursing home it is because she requires 24 hour care and supervision. That means through the night also. Night care includes changing her position every 2-4 hours to prevent pressure damage and to make sure she is clean and dry to prevent moisture lesions. It also means making sure she has her medication as prescribed as some drugs are time critical. Some elderly, dementia patients suffer from "sundowning" which is where as the evening draws in and light is obscure causing long shadows their confusion and anxiety increases which can cause them severe distress. I think your DH needs to discuss his plan with the care staff at the Home and MIL's social worker to hear it from a professional angle.

I get that he is probably feeling v guilty about his mum being in a care home for Christmas but for all the many reasons already mentioned I think it is a really bad idea
People with dementia don't do well with change, let her be in her environment and go and visit her after christmas

My Mother had dementia and lived in a Care Home for several years before she died. However, even before then, my mother became extremely stressed if she spent too long away from her own home and her familiar surroundings.
If you MIL lived nearer, I would suggest you DH collect her and bring her back for the day, knowing he could take her home when she got stressed. However, in this case the distance is too great.
Your DH means well, but it is just not practical.
A better idea would be in the New Year, for your DH to travel to see her, possibly staying in a nearby Travelodge (or similar) overnight, to make the journey easier.
I should also point out that many elderly people, who do NOT have dementia, would find that number of days, just too many for them to cope with. I have seen this myself - a very embarrassing situation, when the elderly relative just did not have the energy to maintain the social interation, and just wanted to go home.

As someone with a loved one with dementia it’s an awful idea. He hasn’t thought it through properly. Is there a possibility of you guys staying local to her area for a few days and spending some time with her? Has he thought about how she may react or behave when she goes back to the home? Sometimes it can make things worse if they can taken out of their known surroundings

I think you should all go there, either for a few days or up and back on the day. Transporting MIL this far sounds like a disaster in the making. Getting in and out of a car takes a surprising amount of thigh muscle strength, co-ordination and muscle memory and the ability to follow some instructions if things start going wrong. I vividly remembering "taking the knee" underneath dad just in time when he froze half in half out of the car. He ended up perched precariously sitting with all his weight on my single outstretched thigh while I hung onto the car with one hand, grabbed him with the other to stop hum from twisting and falling sideways on tarmac, whilst trying to keep him calm so DH and my sister could scurry to the rescue. We used to book wheelchair taxi after that, the driver would wheel dad up the ramp into the back of the taxi and fix it in position.

But the nursing home was only ten minutes away and we would only have dad at home for an afternoon, then not at all, eventually. In the end, even at the nursing home he used to sometimes freeze, panic and cry if he had to cross a door saddle from lino onto carpet or get up off the loo, even with two trained, calm kind nursing staff helping. It was difficult to gently try to "unfreeze" his body and mind. Mum was a bit upset when he went off his legs entirely, but I was relieved in a way, it seemed to me that a broken hip was only a lurch away at times.

Your DH might have romantic notions about wanting to have his mum "home" for potentially her last Christmas, but she probably doesn't view it as home any more. Dad still recognised us, loved us, but even though he talked about "wanting out of here" at the nursing home, what he wanted out of was his body and life as it had become. The last few times we took him home, we drove down the farm lane past the trees he had planted, now a line of lovely beech heading towards maturity; past the field of sheep whose foundation stock he had bought; parked by the wall that he had built himself and brought him into the big warm farmhouse kitchen where he had spent most of his waking life when not outdoors. We might as well have brought him to Mars, or into the "other" day room at the other end of the nursing home. He didn't recognise any of it, and couldn't care less. This was about a year before he died. We went to see him at the nursing home on what turned out to be his last Christmas. He was glad to see us. It was us he wanted, not the bricks and mortar.

Wouldn't your children want Granny there to see them open their presents?

This entirely depends on on Granny being well enough to enjoy this.
I can't imagine the children wanting granny to be there is she is distressed and confused or even aggressive.

Dementia is an unpleasant and at times very distressing illness.

This may have already been suggested but ime, care homes often have bedrooms available for family to stay. Might not have much available at this point though. If they did, DH could stay in the home with his DM and the rest of you could stay nearby and visit? This may be his last Christmas with his DM still able to communicate and be present even if she lives longer. I agree that moving her into a strange environment and the travel even without the physical issues will likely cause her confusion and potentially distress.

Speaking to the care home is definitely the way to go. Would BiL host you all instead?

Sounds like your DH is coming from a place of nostalgia rather than reality. He isn’t ever going to get back the golden family Christmas with the mum he’s always known. That person is gone.

His mum is not a prop. She doesn’t exist to make him feel altruistic, and ‘the best son’. If he truly wants what’s best for his mum- and I’m sure he does- then he needs to leave her in a familiar environment, where she is safe, and recognises her surroundings, and her nursing needs are met, and there’s no danger of her falling foul of Covid quarantine rules.

She has dementia. The calendar will mean nothing to her. You can pick a day before or after Christmas , all go and visit, open presents, maybe take her for a little walk in the gardens if she can manage.

Perhaps it is her last Christmas. Doesn’t she deserve to spend in dignity and comfort?

I would say have her and let him sort the logistics - but I don't think he's even thought it through! How does she use the loo at yours if she can't go upstairs and you have no downstairs loo? What he is proposing doesn't make sense. However, he's probably feeling it may be her last Christmas so he really wants to be with you all and enjoy it as much as she can.

It sounds like a terrible idea to be honest. She'll have to deal with unfamiliarity of your home, the discomfort of the journey, and the anxiety she'll have over her incontinence. I don't think she'd enjoy it because of this.

You'll have to ensure you provide the right conditions so that she doesn't get harmed, such as sleeping in a bed without falling out of it, accessing stairs safely, washing and going to the toilet etc. You'll need to give her her medicine if permitted to by the care home/social services and it is quite possible that she'll become delirious in unfamiliar surroundings. Do any of you have experience dealing with this?

Her needs, both physical and mental health have to come before anything and with her dementia it is even questionable whether the care home will let her out or social services will agree.

I expect your husband hasn't any idea of how difficult it will be, otherwise he wouldn't suggest it. It would probably help him to understand her needs by asking for a copy of her care plan and working out how he can meet them. Hopefully either he'll understand how difficult it is and make alternative plans, or the care home will put a stop to it.

I understand posters saying the whole family go-but even that might be too much for her if Op's husband mostly visits alone.

She might also be less interested in her GC & more focussed on her own "children".

@Macmoominmamma you may get some more ideas if you post in the elderly parents section of the forums, I bet there are lots of people there who could suggest questions to ask your DH to help him realise just what it is he's proposing to do.

"Wouldn't your children want Granny there to see them open their presents?"

I was a child when a grandparent with dementia came to stay for Christmas. My memory is my grandparent getting increasingly upset and eventually screaming at my parents to take them home. Everyone was upset and stressed. Removing someone with dementia from their home surroundings isn't always a good idea. The carers will be able to give good advice.

How will she cope the 100 mile trip? What happens if she gets really distressed on the journey to you, what do you do about getting her back to the nursing home?

@powershowerforanhour
this
very well expressed
Dm had dementia &although we took her out for one visit early on - it just didn't work for her & my dc (youngest was about your youngest age) it was upsetting & a horrible way for them to remember her

So sorry, it is too late. Visit her, take her for a walk or to a tea shop if she can manage it, even that may be too much. Phone or Skype her at Xmas. Care home will back this surely.