AIBU to not want to be an unmarried SAHM?

[EnglishMuffins]

Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on my situation.

I was married for several years and had 2 DC with my exH. I had always worked part time to be around for our young DC in a general admin job. Upon divorce , exH stayed in marital home and bought me out of my share. I took some furniture, no savings (in fact debts that needing reconciling) and no claim to his pension as he said the pot was too small to even consider sharing it 50/50 after only a few years being married.
I lived with family as I couldn’t afford to buy or rent on my PT salary, and we share custody of our DC 50/50.

Fast forward a couple of years and I met DP. He was also a divorcee. Their split was amicable, no DC involved. We bought a house together about 18 months into our relationship and soon after we unexpectedly fell pg (I said unexpectedly as there are fertility issues on both sides but a blessing all the same and we were delighted).
When our child was born we decided I would give up my job to be a full time SAHM. We also needed a bigger house so sold up and moved , but this time my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects. So my initial lump sum I invested into our first property (from my divorce settlement) which had also grown as property prices went up in value and the mortgage was paid off (I might add that for 18 months I contributed towards the mortgage and bills) is now tied up in a house that is in DP sole name. I feel naive but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.

My issue is, I really thought that by now, DP would have proposed marriage. He’s not dead set against it, but he says things like “don’t do it!!” When we drive past weddings and things , and I just generally get the feeling he doesn’t see a second marriage in his future. Our child is almost 2, ive given up on my job, a career, paying into a pension, independence , I sold my little car.. have no savings or means to save , am solely reliant on DP wages . Meanwhile he is climbing the career ladder, paying into a pension, accruing savings and saving what I imagine would be a vast monthly sum in childcare costs.
AIBU to expect him to marry me? I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position, with nothing to fall back on. I want a secure future for my child and my DC from my previous marriage. I would even like to share a name with DP and our child and I guess rubber seal our family unit? So both financially, and romantically, I’d like to be married - but DP has no interest . Then part of me feels like a gold-digger for thinking he should marry me and give up 50:50 if we were to split.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?
DP has a will, I don’t. DP has insurance through work that would pay off the mortgage - I guess this would be taxed? I have life insurance. No savings and a tiny pension from my PT job.

Oh hon he saw you coming and knows exactly what he's done, this is no accident. If he was a decent bloke with your best interests at heart he would have made sure you were financially secure, whether he wanted to marry or not. Go see a lawyer quickly and get back to work xx

Oh dear.

OP, this is a catalogue of legal advice which you should have sought. Everything from challenging your ex's comments about the pension to your current partner's decision to buy himself a house with your money should have been done properly.

I'm not sure what to advise now. If your partner were a decent person, he would have put your name on the deeds. As he didn't, I think we can assume that he's not to be trusted.

Your desire to be a family unit of you, your partner, your mutual child, and your two other children is clear to read. But to judge by your partner's actions, you want this more than he does.

I think you have to have a very honest conversation with him and see where it goes.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences

I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position

That is because you are in a vulnerable position. There's no two ways about that, and no way to make it any less blunt a thing to say.

You really need to get yourself back into the workforce, get some savings (try to invest what you would otherwise be paying in rent, sothat if you do have to start paying rent it's not a new bite out of your income) and sort it a pension.

You need to speak to a solicitor.

You can’t undo what’s been done.

You are an unmarried SAHM.

You didn’t legally ringfence your lump sum from the previous home under your name.

The time to ask advice on the internet is long past.

You need to go to a solicitor and get your deposit ring fenced retrospectively ASAP.

You sound like you sleepwalk from one bad financial decision to another in favour of a relationship.

Get legal advice. Get a job. What on earth will you do if your working on ‘trust’ P decides he doesn’t enjoy the current set up and decided he wants you to leave right now. And don’t say he’d never do that. They never do, till they do.

I don’t have any legal expert but can you get a deed of trust drawn up? When me and DP moved into our house the mortgage was solely in his name as I’m self-employed and have a poorer credit rating. However we both paid equally towards the deposit and mortgage payments are 50/50. I absolutely trust DP in that even if we broke up acrimoniously, I believe he would not be the type of person to try and screw me over. But nonetheless, we got a deed of trust drawn up stating what I’ve contributed and confirming that any proceeds from a later sale of the house should be split 50/50.

And you should also definitely get married. He is BU to ask you to stay unmarried while raising his child! Fair enough if he’s not into it especially (having been married before) but on a practical level it needs to be done, even if it’s just a quick registry office thing.

I am on a facebook page for legal advice. Recently a daughter posted about her mother's situation. Her mother had had a recent diagnosis of dementia. The mother had lived with her partner for 35 years. She sold her house and the proceeds went on things like maintaining and renovation her partners house. Her partner had kicked her out as he did not want to nurse her when her dementia got bad. She had been kicked out with immediate effect. Her daughter wanted to know what her rights were to the home as while he was the sole owner, they had a long relationship! So many people are shocked to learn that you have no rights to property assests or pension if you are not married. Many people think marriage is just a piece of paper and for religious people and do not grasp the legal implications at all.

P.s. as the others have said re getting your share of the property sorted. It’s not just a worst case scenario you ending up homeless and penniless, no pension, only eligible for minimum wage jobs (and being told to e grateful for ‘having supported you’ for years) but actually the most likely scenario if you were to split. However grating that ends up sounding to you after years of doing as much if not more work than him, albeit unpaid

@HyacynthBucket

I am not a lawyer, but I would think you have a "beneficial interest" in the current house because you contributed to the cost of it. Please do get legal advice on this and how to secure your interest in the house, and on other aspects of your situation, OP. You need a definite update on where you stand financially.

I'm pretty sure that if they are not married, it makes no difference. But proper legal advice is what the OP needs.

It's not quite bullshit, it absolutely can hinder a mortgage application if one party has a poor credit history. Lenders will often base their lending on the credit history of the weakest applicant and a bad history will be given more weight than a good one.

Sure, I understand the legals & logic @Lockheart, but it's funny (not) how we only see it here when it's a DP taking % risk while our OP is 100% exposed.

He has exposed himself in another way though.
When he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”, he outed himself for the liar, manipulator & arch deflector he is.

"We" are not based on trust - because DP has appropriated all OP's capital, & now has the documentation to prove that it now belongs solely to him. He doesn't need trust - he has the paperwork.
It's only the OP who has to base her & 3 DC's lives on "trust".

Hence I reckon I do know he's a bullshitter, & won't be surprised to learn that he manufactured an excuse to prevent OP from being on the deeds (or mortgage).

I actually hope I'm barking wrong, & OP comes back to explain she's mistaken & IS named on the deeds as a 50% owner. But suspect that like too many, she is confusing "mortgage repayment obligation" with "legal ownership".

Please check it out OP.

my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects.

This is not how mortgages work. See a solicitor ASAP and get your name back on any assets you have contributed to if you can.

The daughter was essentially faced with her mother having to move in with her, she wasn't yet bad enough for a home.

I was a SAHM and I have 2 joint mortgages with DH. You need to get your name on the house deeds asap.

OP your posts come across as astoundingly articulate and you’re obviously an intelligent woman who has been totally hoodwinked by two men. Because you know you’re in a vulnerable position. It’s really time as you know to get a good grasp on your finances and get some security put into place.

I’m wondering where you should go for initial legal advice and I’m a bit stumped!

I’m wondering if a firm like this could give you some initial advice?

familylawpartners.co.uk/blog/property-rights-for-unmarried-couples/

And you should also definitely get married. He is BU to ask you to stay unmarried while raising his child! Fair enough if he’s not into it especially (having been married before) but on a practical level it needs to be done, even if it’s just a quick registry office thing. ............ or what ?

I totally agree with others that you need to seek legal advice.
HOWEVER, this isnt quite as bleak as others make out. My best friend is not married to her partner and it is HER name on the mortgage and the deeds of the house that they live in. She now wants to split and you would imagine that she held all the cards in this scenario but her solicitor has told her otherwise. Since her partner has been contributing financially towards their mortgage for years (and he can prove this via bank account records- contributions towards their joint account from which the mortgage is taken every month) she has been told that he has a right to 50% of the value of the house should they split even though it is in her sole name. She said the UK courts take a very dim view of people trying get everything of what is essentially an asset they have both contributed towards financially and they tend to favour splitting assets fairly despite whose name is on what. Its more about what has been financially contributed by both parties over time. Now, this doesnt mean you shouldnt protect yourself because you ABSOLUTELY should and I suggest you make an appointment to get legal advice first thing Monday morning. I would also suggest you get a legal agreement written up that you get back what you have put in to this arrangement. I'm merely saying this scenario is not as black and white as people make out.

Bloody hell OP, why are you standing around like a lovestruck teen waiting for your knight in shining armour to propose marriage??
A big gesture romantic marriage proposal means Jack Shit in the real world. Lots of women who’ve had this and the expensive frothy wedding still end up getting divorced, me included.

I can’t believe that after giving birth to 3 kids you’re still acting like being financially responsible is the man’s job and if you’re a good girl, he’ll do the right thing. 🤦🏻‍♀️ 🤦🏻‍♀️

You need to take full responsibility for your own financial situation and look ahead to the longer term future too.

Start by getting some independent legal advice then tell your DP that you want to get married. Once he’s agreed to that, tell him to arrange to have your name added to the house. You’ve already contributed your savings towards its purchase, so it’s a perfectly reasonable request assuming your partner is genuinely interested in doing what’s best for his family.

However, I suspect that he’s stringing you along as any man who genuinely loves the mother of his child surely wouldn’t buy a property in his name only.
HUGE RED FLAG.

Assuming he (like millions of other men), decides in a few years that he wants to leave and date a 20 something woman? Where does that leave you? Up shit creek….again!

You made a daft decision in your first marriage by allowing your ex to buy you out of the house. Don’t keep making the same stupid mistakes!

Who told you that you needed to be removed from the application? There is zero logic to the explanation that you being on the application reduced the amount you could borrow. There are many woman who don’t work who are on the deeds and mortgage application. So looks like he is a liar. It also looks like you skipped into another relationship quickly, happily signed over any rights and gave up your your job. I mean you clearly didn’t learn anything from the experience with your ex. And this one telling you that ‘trust’ is enough. I mean come on you can’t be that naive

[quote PennyWus]**@Wombat46* Actually I am not on the deeds or mortgage for my house because the a*holes at Nationwide refused to let us port our mortgage when we moved house, based on the fact that I had a baby and “if I lost my job I couldn’t afford Nursery” even though I gave them my work contract (3 months notice) and nursery contract (1 months notice) and even though we could afford the house on my husband’s income alone.
Utterly sexist decision as they never questioned whether my DH could afford to be a SAHP if HE lost HIS job. Nationwide just didn’t want our business, we were porting an extremely generous mortgage deal we’d scored years earlier. They effed around with the mortgage decision for so long we almost lost the house, so last minute we plumped for HSBC, didn’t have time to do the full process explaining again why I wasn’t a risky borrower (perfect credit history, track record of continuous permanent FT employment ). So we just put the house in my DH name.

I had to sign a legal document declaring I would make no claim to, nor squat in, the house of DH defaults on the mortgage. They would not le5 my name be on the deeds.

However we are married. And we pay off the mortgage next year at which time I will get my name n the deeds.

I would not in a million years take such a chance if I wasn’t married.

OP you need legal advice.[/quote]
Given that Nationwide are supposed to be good for their customers, I'm gobsmacked by that.

I've been on countless mortgages (moved a lot, property is my business) and I've never had any issues, always joint, generally on DHs earnings only. No-one has even raised it...

That's so, so bad.

Op is so vulnerable.

I’m an (admittedly married) SAHM and me being on the application hasn’t stopped mortgage providers offering us 5 x my husbands’s income. Our mortgage broker actually told us it would be damaging to leave me off as it would look suspicious.

I don’t trust your partner at all. I hope this isn’t the case, but I wonder if he’s lied to you to Lee your name off the documents.

mintybobs that won’t be the case for OP as she has given up work so won’t be contributing anything financially

If you feel your relationship is otherwise good, I'd suggest you don't wait for him to propose, but instead open a serious discussion on marriage as a financial contract.

Since her partner has been contributing financially towards their mortgage for years

Since OP has not, she should not invest false hopes in @mintybobs's well meaning advice.

Even if she had, she doesn't have access to enough capital (because she gave it all away to her DP!) to fund an expensive legal case to establish/obtain her rights.

Apart from anything else, £25k is not peanuts!!!! That's an entire deposit in itself for some properties!

@theremustonlybeone

mintybobs that won’t be the case for OP as she has given up work so won’t be contributing anything financially

Then the courts would take the view that the OP has given up work so her OH can work- she has therefore taken a financial hit so HE can still work and would therefore still be entitled. Look, I'm no lawyer but my friend was gobsmacked to be told she actually isnt in the prime financial position she thought she was (they also have kids together) because all assets are in her name only.

Did he tell you that you would be counted as a dependent and that you couldn't be on the deeds by any chance?

Yes marriage would have been the way to protect yourself but please, OP, dont marry this man.