AIBU to not want to be an unmarried SAHM?

[EnglishMuffins]

Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on my situation.

I was married for several years and had 2 DC with my exH. I had always worked part time to be around for our young DC in a general admin job. Upon divorce , exH stayed in marital home and bought me out of my share. I took some furniture, no savings (in fact debts that needing reconciling) and no claim to his pension as he said the pot was too small to even consider sharing it 50/50 after only a few years being married.
I lived with family as I couldn’t afford to buy or rent on my PT salary, and we share custody of our DC 50/50.

Fast forward a couple of years and I met DP. He was also a divorcee. Their split was amicable, no DC involved. We bought a house together about 18 months into our relationship and soon after we unexpectedly fell pg (I said unexpectedly as there are fertility issues on both sides but a blessing all the same and we were delighted).
When our child was born we decided I would give up my job to be a full time SAHM. We also needed a bigger house so sold up and moved , but this time my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects. So my initial lump sum I invested into our first property (from my divorce settlement) which had also grown as property prices went up in value and the mortgage was paid off (I might add that for 18 months I contributed towards the mortgage and bills) is now tied up in a house that is in DP sole name. I feel naive but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.

My issue is, I really thought that by now, DP would have proposed marriage. He’s not dead set against it, but he says things like “don’t do it!!” When we drive past weddings and things , and I just generally get the feeling he doesn’t see a second marriage in his future. Our child is almost 2, ive given up on my job, a career, paying into a pension, independence , I sold my little car.. have no savings or means to save , am solely reliant on DP wages . Meanwhile he is climbing the career ladder, paying into a pension, accruing savings and saving what I imagine would be a vast monthly sum in childcare costs.
AIBU to expect him to marry me? I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position, with nothing to fall back on. I want a secure future for my child and my DC from my previous marriage. I would even like to share a name with DP and our child and I guess rubber seal our family unit? So both financially, and romantically, I’d like to be married - but DP has no interest . Then part of me feels like a gold-digger for thinking he should marry me and give up 50:50 if we were to split.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?
DP has a will, I don’t. DP has insurance through work that would pay off the mortgage - I guess this would be taxed? I have life insurance. No savings and a tiny pension from my PT job.

If he doesn't want to be married, suggest the civil partnership route. It is a legal document that gives you both the same rights as being married but without the baggage of marriage/weddings. If he loves you and loves you as the mother of your child, he would give you the safety of at least a cp. If not, I would be really worried that he could kick you out and leave you with the clothes on your back.
Me and my partner are in the process of going through a civil partnership as he is 13 years older than me and will be having major surgery ometime in the future. This will protect my rights after 36 years together. I don't want to be married!

@PleasantBirthday

Even now, on here, it's not uncommon to see grown women say they don't want to get married because they aren't silly princesses who need a big frock and a special Disney day...

Yes, somehow men understand what is in a marriage contract, but so many women don't. I think that's what's behind all the sneering at weddings, to make them seem less attractive to women who hate to be thought of as self centered and grabby, which is what brides are derided as being. Of course, since women also get substantial benefits from marriage once children come along, it makes sense to make it appear that only a terminally silly and childish woman would want it - to make women less secure about insisting on it.

Yup. Same with "we don't need a piece of paper to prove our love", which heavily implies that a marriage certificate is little more than a souvenir of a wedding day. In reality it's a contract -- of course it's printed on paper. WTF else would it be printed on?

Christmas1988

My husbands the only one on the mortgage as me being a SAHM brought the amount we could borrow down too but the solicitor wrote that if we split up I get 50% of the house

Firstly why did it bring it down how much you could borrow? Is this a new thing ?

Also if you are married you are entitled to 50% of everything you both own, including the marital home. Why did you need a solicitor to do anything

Same with "we don't need a piece of paper to prove our love", which heavily implies that a marriage certificate is little more than a souvenir of a wedding day.

It also shows that the person thinks marriage is about proving love. While I'd certainly question the love of a man who won't commit or financially protect his partner when circumstances would require it, marriage itself isn't a contract of love. You can legally marry someone you don't love and it takes more to dissolve it than losing feelings.

It's sheer foolishness to become utterly financially reliant on another person, with long term consequences, without getting a solid contract in place for your protection.

@Mirw

If he doesn't want to be married, suggest the civil partnership route. It is a legal document that gives you both the same rights as being married but without the baggage of marriage/weddings. If he loves you and loves you as the mother of your child, he would give you the safety of at least a cp. If not, I would be really worried that he could kick you out and leave you with the clothes on your back. Me and my partner are in the process of going through a civil partnership as he is 13 years older than me and will be having major surgery ometime in the future. This will protect my rights after 36 years together. I don't want to be married!

This isn't quite true. First of all, the "baggage" of a wedding, whatever that is, is entirely optional. You can have a low key, no fuss wedding or a huge white civil partnership complete with doves, a princess dress and singing waiters. If you're referring to the patriarchal history of marriage somehow sullying what it is now, remember that civil partnerships came into being only as a way of trying to keep same sex couples happy without allowing them equal marriage rights. They were intended as an inferior alternative to appease those who opposed same sex marriage. There's a reason campaigners kept pushing for marriage and weren't satisfied with CPs.

And that's because civil partnerships effectively don't recognise the sexual/romantic relationship. They are utterly platonic, if you will. They can't be dissolved on grounds such as adultery, although in practise, if you want out, there'll be a way. They're certainly better than nothing, they'll protect you in the event of a split, for OP's purpose it's probably fine. And if a couple prefers a CP to marriage, power to them. But they don't offer quite the same thing that marriage does. In practise that may not matter, but it's always good to understand things fully.

@DrSbaitso this is very true.

Every gay couple I know has upgraded (their word not mine) their civil partnership to marriage.

Since they could marry I've not met any gay couples who've picked a CP over marriage.

If he loves you and loves you as the mother of your child, he would give you the safety of at least a cp

The trouble is blood is thicker than water. Now that he has a child, he will want to protect their interests first and foremost . As things stand their child together, his only child, is the sole beneficiary. Wht would he want it split 3 ways?

[quote Twizbe]@DrSbaitso this is very true.

Every gay couple I know has upgraded (their word not mine) their civil partnership to marriage.

Since they could marry I've not met any gay couples who've picked a CP over marriage. [/quote]
Yes, I don't know any same sex couples who didn't marry when they could. I thought it was odd that heterosexual couples wanted CPs, given they were supposed to be an inferior alternative, but if there are women who refuse the protection of marriage but will accept a CP, that's a good thing. Odd, to my mind, but good.

@DrSbaitso
In response to your comment, I agree it is unusual for mixed sex couples to choose a CP over marriage but I know a couple who did earlier this year. Had been together for years, but at the stage in life where they had children and significant assets and wanted to be able to plan efficiently. They both disliked the "feudal and sexist" connotations of marriage but wanted the legal contract part. So a CP was perfect for them.

Why would he accept a CP over a marriage if it's divorce he's worried about ? I don't know much about civil partnerships but if they're offering the OP protection like a marriage, then he's unlikely to accept that either.

I get the impression the OPs boyfriend doesn't want to lose his home a second time round if they split up. It would be her that would have to move out, taking her 25k (if he's feeling honest enough to give it to her) with her.

She'd be able to rent somewhere with that whilst she looks for a job, but the future would be hard.

OP can you look into claiming some of your ex's pension ? I think you were cheated there.

Actually Halifax would have offered £20k more on our mortgage if I wasn't on the mortgage but DH said no way and we struggled but managed to get that amount. OP, what posters have been saying is get a job so that now that you are earning the bank will allow you to be on the mortgage and also on the deeds. Also, since it would be a 2nd marriage you can go to the registry and get married without paying anything but the fees. On mumsnet you will see people talking about couples who have got married quietly for their protection but had told nobody. No money wasted either.

Why would he accept a CP over a marriage if it's divorce he's worried about ? I don't know much about civil partnerships but if they're offering the OP protection like a marriage, then he's unlikely to accept that either.

Some people have a different feeling about CPs to marriage. It isn't very logical, but if it results in more protection, that's what matters.

Sorry to not reply. It’s been a busy weekend and the amount of replies has been overwhelming, though I have read them all. I’ll try and cover off what I think was asked..

When I was with my ex husband I was working 4 days a week, but my salary wasn’t high enough that I could take over the mortgage and buy him out and remain in the family home.
He claimed he’d only been paying into his pension for the last 3 years of our marriage and the pot was small , not much bigger than mine, so his solicitor suggested it didn’t need to be included in the divorce settlement. I guess he’d have a stake in my pension if I went after his? And after how many years is it morally right to go after an ex’s pension?

My current dp, I gave up my job to be a SAHM when our dc was born. It was a joint decision as I wanted the time with dc , dp preferred for me to raise him for the first few years rather than nursery staff etc, and the cost of childcare meant we wouldn’t have actually been much better off I’d id kept my job and returned to work. I was naive though in thinking we would get married in the short term which would offer some protection until I returned to work.

My dp has a will leaving everything to me. He has life cover through work which leaves everything to me.

I couldn’t go on the mortgage as there were only a handful of lenders who could lend the amount needed to get the bigger house. I brought down the affordability as I had (have) no income. This meant I couldn’t be named on the mortgage , and I couldn’t be named on the deeds as the mortgage lender see that as too risky.

There are some assumptions that dp left his ex wife , or that he lost everything and it was some messy divorce. And that he is some kind of evil monster on the brink of throwing me out and leaving me destitute 🙈 I know things always seem good til they’re not.. but I don’t think he’s about to throw me out and leave me up shit creek. But I KNOW I’ve made stupid decisions and am trying to rectify them retrospectively.

DP brought up the discussion again last night. He feels very upset about the situation and wants to rectify it as well. He said he of course knew the position we were in but thought he was doing the right thing, taking out a massive mortgage to get us a larger house to enjoy living in, funding me staying at home with our dc. He said marriage hadn’t occurred to him but he isn’t dead set against it.

I’ve emailed a solicitor to make an appointment. My dp has phoned the mortgage provider about how best to get my name on the deeds - it seems our best course of action is a declaration of trust to protect my money. We’ve also agreed I’ll look into full time work in the new year.

I don’t think he’s about to throw me out and leave me up shit creek.

Nor does any woman who experiences it.

And that he is some kind of evil monster on the brink of throwing me out and leaving me destitute

Why have you got a monkey emoji and silly rhetoric here to make a joke of it? It's happened to a great many women, including many on here, and they didn't foresee it either. We're not saying it to insult your partner. You clearly know this is exactly what could happen, which is why you're (rightly) worried about your position.

Of course we all hope it doesn't happen to you, but as you know, it absolutely could. That's literally why these protections exist. You've already accepted your ex's claim that he has hardly anything in his pension pot without questioning it.

And anyway, it's not just relationship breakdown you need to think of. It's death and life changing health or disability problems too.

You cannot recreate all the protections of marriage without doing it. Ask the solicitor to explain it all to you both when you have the meeting. It may change your partner's mind.

If he is as good a man as you say he is, he will take a clear-eyed look at what this means for your protection, and do it. If he doesn't, whatever you do, don't treat it as a joke. Protect yourself in all the ways you can and be aware of what you are doing, and what he is not.

He claimed he’d only been paying into his pension for the last 3 years of our marriage and the pot was small , not much bigger than mine, so his solicitor suggested it didn’t need to be included in the divorce settlement. I guess he’d have a stake in my pension if I went after his? And after how many years is it morally right to go after an ex’s pension?

OP... His solicitor's job was to make these "suggestions". Your solicitor's job is to rebuff them. And so on, until you come up with something that best reflects the interests of all parties - and in particular any children. You have two children by your first husband, and you have drifted along on a cloud of "he said" and "his solicitor said", rather than getting serious and protecting your children's interests.

As for the morality of making a claim on his pension now: morality doesn't come into this. It is a legal and financial matter, not a moral one.

And now you're sliding down a similar route, with the added complication of being with a man who doesn't particularly want to get married.

It's good that he brought the subject up again, but you can't sit there waiting for him to bring it up. You can't make him marry you (I wouldn't marry either, in his situation: there is no way I'd want to run the risk of passing things on to two children who are not mine). I think you have to take non-marriage at the starting point, and then try to remedy whatever you can, with the help of lawyers.

The monkey emoji isn’t to make light of it, it’s because the vast majority of responses suggest an urgency so strong it’s as though my evil dp will throw me out tomorrow… of course it can happen. But only we know how we feel in a relationship I suppose? You are reading facts from someone you don’t know.

I really think your DP sounds like a good guy. I understand if he’s been divorced why he wouldn’t want to remarry and it sounds like he’s trying to find a way to satisfy you that you’ll be taken care of in a way agreeable to both of you. Who knows perhaps in the future he’ll change his mind about marriage if you can get through this happily?

My advice is not to listen to all the posters on here trying to drag your relationship down. Seriously some of the women on here are just bitter, bitter, bitter and see evil intentions in everything men do that a poster asks advice over. Sounds like you’ve got a better grip on him and things in general than the posters here ( and it’s your life so why wouldn’t you?)

I agree it would be pretty weird and grasping to go after the ex’s pension now your both in new relationships and you have another child. How much could it really be worth.

Thank you. He is a good guy. I don’t believe for a minute he has set out an evil plan to dupe me and leave me hanging high and dry. He also said he could never do that to the mother of his child, or my dc who he’s formed a really close bond with. I know posters will say that we all think that until it happens… but I’m comfortable in believing him this. But of course we are both clear now of the ramifications (potentially) of not having protection in place and we are sorting this. From January I’m seeking work and dp is exploring all avenues to get my name on the deeds and protect my stake in the house.

I don’t really want to revisit the divorce with my ex after all this time. Maybe I was sold short? His pension wouldn’t have been massive, maybe slightly more than mine was at the time. I want to focus on sorting my current situation out going forward…

And unless we married or had a CP, I’m not sure what else he could do to protect me in the event of his death? He has a will which leaves everything to me and his work life cover is left to me and pays off the mortgage.

He claimed he’d only been paying into his pension for the last 3 years of our marriage and the pot was small , not much bigger than mine, so his solicitor suggested it didn’t need to be included in the divorce settlement. I guess he’d have a stake in my pension if I went after his? And after how many years is it morally right to go after an ex’s pension?

So you can take your STB ex's word for it, or ... you each declare the value of your pensions and, if they are indeed similar, they can be discounted.

Similarly, you can set up wills and nominations for death in service benefits, but these last only until they are updated. There is no requirement to let an ex beneficiary know that the will has been changed. Just a cold, dark awakening.

When it's much too late to do anything about it.

No need for your partner to explore all avenues to get your name on the deeds, he just needs to see a conveyancing solicitor. You can do all the research and give him the name of a few. You need to be proactive and get the ball rolling.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that? We have to do a transfer of equity, and a mortgage provider who is owed a large sum of money is not going to take lightly to someone being named on the deeds having an interest in the property,. When that person isnt named on the mortgage but even if I was I’m unemployed and couldn’t make the mortgage repayments either. It means having to go through me to do anything with the property including selling it.
A declaration of trust though, they wouldn’t need to know about.

@EnglishMuffins

The monkey emoji isn’t to make light of it, it’s because the vast majority of responses suggest an urgency so strong it’s as though my evil dp will throw me out tomorrow… of course it can happen. But only we know how we feel in a relationship I suppose? You are reading facts from someone you don’t know.

It reads as if you're not taking it seriously and find the idea ridiculous. But so did many women on here and elsewhere, to whom it happened.

We are going on facts, and the fact is that you are wide open amd completely unprotected. You know this, which is why you're posting.

I hope you get this sorted. If he truly wouldn't see you totally screwed over, he'll protect you properly. Marriage is waaaay more than wills and life assurance, either of which can be changed at any time.

I absolutely take it seriously, I’ve seen it happen myself. But I feel my DP has been unfairly painted in a really bad light when I genuinely think he was only doing his best for his partner and family (including 2 children who aren’t his) now his eyes have been opened, and he knows how I’m feeling, we are working towards rectifying this. That is a good thing, right?

Ok, just make sure you are doing your own research, employ your own solicitor if needed, don’t take the word of another man. Why on earth didn’t you do a declaration of trust when you gave away 25k? This is is yours and your DC security, so many couples are happy and secure and then the man gets to a certain age and boom he’s moves in with the 25 year old from work. Well in your case he could move her in and you out.