AIBU to not want to be an unmarried SAHM?

[EnglishMuffins]

Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on my situation.

I was married for several years and had 2 DC with my exH. I had always worked part time to be around for our young DC in a general admin job. Upon divorce , exH stayed in marital home and bought me out of my share. I took some furniture, no savings (in fact debts that needing reconciling) and no claim to his pension as he said the pot was too small to even consider sharing it 50/50 after only a few years being married.
I lived with family as I couldn’t afford to buy or rent on my PT salary, and we share custody of our DC 50/50.

Fast forward a couple of years and I met DP. He was also a divorcee. Their split was amicable, no DC involved. We bought a house together about 18 months into our relationship and soon after we unexpectedly fell pg (I said unexpectedly as there are fertility issues on both sides but a blessing all the same and we were delighted).
When our child was born we decided I would give up my job to be a full time SAHM. We also needed a bigger house so sold up and moved , but this time my name was no longer on the mortgage as my lack of income decreased our borrowing prospects. So my initial lump sum I invested into our first property (from my divorce settlement) which had also grown as property prices went up in value and the mortgage was paid off (I might add that for 18 months I contributed towards the mortgage and bills) is now tied up in a house that is in DP sole name. I feel naive but he said that we’d just have to base it on “trust”.

My issue is, I really thought that by now, DP would have proposed marriage. He’s not dead set against it, but he says things like “don’t do it!!” When we drive past weddings and things , and I just generally get the feeling he doesn’t see a second marriage in his future. Our child is almost 2, ive given up on my job, a career, paying into a pension, independence , I sold my little car.. have no savings or means to save , am solely reliant on DP wages . Meanwhile he is climbing the career ladder, paying into a pension, accruing savings and saving what I imagine would be a vast monthly sum in childcare costs.
AIBU to expect him to marry me? I just feel I’m in a vulnerable position, with nothing to fall back on. I want a secure future for my child and my DC from my previous marriage. I would even like to share a name with DP and our child and I guess rubber seal our family unit? So both financially, and romantically, I’d like to be married - but DP has no interest . Then part of me feels like a gold-digger for thinking he should marry me and give up 50:50 if we were to split.

What are the legal implications of not being married vs being married?
DP has a will, I don’t. DP has insurance through work that would pay off the mortgage - I guess this would be taxed? I have life insurance. No savings and a tiny pension from my PT job.

@category12 this week on a legal advice facebook page I am on a daughter posted about a woman being kicked out of the house of her partner of 35 years. It was because she had been diagnosed with dementia and he did not want to look after her. A common law wife is total fiction. The law doesn't care about love or living together, it cares about if there is or is not a legal document proving the relationship, ie a marriage certificate.

[quote Thehouseofmarvels]@mintybobs This is probably a reference to beneficial interest. People can't get a settlement from a judge if they are not married. They have to pursue beneficial interest, which is difficult and expensive. [/quote]
..yes and although was useful to know as a last resort, also think have to consider that when people get married then they usually have the idea of what they are signing up to financially so there will more likely be some level of acceptance that assets will be split. Separations can get nasty enough without one partner having to give up a lot more than they expected, however ‘fair’ and this is probably not what you necessarily want when trying to maintain a positive co parenting relationship (that’s not to say shouldn’t do it) but is certainly no substitute for either him wanting to marry and grant those rights or her accepting this is not the case and ensuring he does his fair share of the work and costs of bringing up their child so she can establish some security for her and her children’s future

[quote Thehouseofmarvels]@category12 this week on a legal advice facebook page I am on a daughter posted about a woman being kicked out of the house of her partner of 35 years. It was because she had been diagnosed with dementia and he did not want to look after her. A common law wife is total fiction. The law doesn't care about love or living together, it cares about if there is or is not a legal document proving the relationship, ie a marriage certificate. [/quote]
Yes, it wasn't me saying there is such a thing as common law wife/husband -it was another poster I was responding to.

Are you not considered a common law wife if you should split up? Are you worried about him keeping the 25k if you split?

There's no such thing @cultkid.

@cultkid

It's only an issue if your relationship is no good Ask him outright to propose to you. Tell him you want the same second name as your child and you want the commitment. I see what others are saying but it's only applicable if your relationship isn't working.

I'm married and a SAHM basically. Yes I do own 50% of our business but I don't work

My husband is on the mortgage only as he bought the place before me

I am not on the deeds and we want to move and get a mortgage on a bigger house using the equity here

I wouldn't really be fussed about who's name was on what because our relationship is solid

Are you not considered a common law wife if you should split up? Are you worried about him keeping the 25k if you split?

I wouldn't get a job to try to be independent if you don't need one, kids thrive with a parent at home.

Unhelpful, particularly your last line.

The fact it even happened is a red flag for the relationship.

You’ve basically handed him £25k with no claim on it now or the property it’s invested in ☹️. See a solicitor and find out what you can do, then you need to get a job and get your own income. I wouldn’t count on him marrying you to make this right.

Wow that is eye opening

Thanks for the info

NoNoNo.

OP it is (in England anyway) NOT TRUE that you need income for your name to be on the house title. Get that house transferred into joint names NOW.

I’m a SAHM with no income or savings. When me and DH bought our house we got it in joint names no problem. The bank don’t care whose names the Land Registy title (ownership) is in, as long as the person who’s on the mortgage has enough income to cover the whole thing.

I’m surprised you just handed over your property equity like that when a five minute google would have told you how to protect your money. But anyway we are where we are.

Get independent legal/financial advice and do not tell him you are doing this, he’ll be offended and childish about it. Many (most?) men loooove it when women are 100% reliant on them financially and have no knowledge of how to protect their money and it is very common for them to reply to any questions “but don’t you trust me?” (I bet he wouldn’t instruct his bank to pay all his income into your sole name bank account, however much he trusts you).

Congratulations on the baby but tell him very clearly you can’t be a SAHM unless the house is in both names and you are married. Honestly the time for a romantic proposal is over, you’re both divorced and having a baby. And tell him if you aren’t a SAHM then he will need to step up and do 50% childcare and domestic work.

Honestly I wouldn’t recommend being a longtime SAHM anyway, it’s basically 3-5 years of blissful baby snuggles, followed by the rest of your life being the dependent who’s expected to do all the childcare and admin and cleaning and get up at dawn with th kid every day etc while DH takes all the lie ins and struts about feeling important and making patronising comments and people talk about how lucky you are to be supported by a man 🙄.

[quote cultkid]@category12 I didn't know that, thank you for letting me know.

Do you not have some rights after living together for three years then? [/quote]
No more than I do with my housemates who I've lived with for several years.

Living together means almost nothing in law. Marriage is a legal contract first and foremost which gives your relationship recognition and the parties protection in law.

The is awful op.

Are you sure you couldn't go on the mortgage? We've moved house several times whilst I'v been a SAHM and my lack of income has not affected the amount they're willing to lend at all.

You need to see a solicitor. If he won't marry you the least he can do is remortgage to release your 25k plus half of anything the house value has increased by.

@Jessie75 if you are not married you have almost no rights. For example my friend has parents who are not married. She said marriage is not nesesary her parents are married and are happy. She is unsure if she wants kids. Her partner bought the house before she met him. If he kicked her out she would no rights. If he dies and they decide to be childfree his horrible estranged parents will get the house as he has no will. You can try to prove in a court ( not a family or divorce court) you have paid into a house, by for example showing proof you paid for a new bathroom. However this is difficult and expensive comparented to being married and may or may not be sucessful.

And to be clear there is NO SUCH THING as a ‘common law wife’ in England. Marriage as a legal thing was created to protect the wife’s finances, ensure she couldn’t be thrown out of the marital home even of she doesn’t own it, and clarify the care of the children. Men are often very keen that women give up these legal protections in return for trust. 😡

Her parents are unmarried and happy, sorry

All I can say is even be married you don’t particularly have the level of protection you might expect my ex has lied through his teeth over the financial settlement we have spent £49,000 on lawyers arguing over a three bed semi.

I say to my daughters just do it by yourself, safer that way.

Also @cultkid It's only an issue if your relationship is no good - you never know what is going to happen. You might think your relationship is rock-solid and as far as you know it is - but he ends up having his head turned or something else happens, and the relationship breaks down. It is not rare for relationships to end, even if you (like most people at one time or another) think yours is special.

At which point, you're up shit creek.

Plus if he dies unexpectedly and hasn't got a will naming you, you can also be up shit creek on top of being bereaved.

Just get married.

Don't wait for a proposal, don't plan a big service, just get it done for legal protection.

Pop down to your local registrar office, it will take about half an hour and give you the security you need.

Honestly, it's not about being romantic or declaring your love, it's giving you legal protection. You would be a fool to leave it any longer, you have already risked so much.

In what world is £25k not a huge amount of money?!

What discussions did you have when you decided to have the baby and decided to stop working? What did you discuss about finances?

How will you make the shortfall in your pension? Just a five year break until primary school is significant and greatly reduces retirement income. What about upskilling so when you return to work you’re more attractive to employers.

If you wanted to get married you should have done that before you had a baby. He is making a big financial sacrifice by paying for two children who aren’t his.

Yes I’d be the first one to say go for the benefits of being an SAHM, housewife or following partner round the world or whatever if your both happy with the decision but absolutely not if unmarried. Is a totally different ballgame!! Also if unmarried and you want to split up then cannot help on getting any help with housing unless he willing to ‘throw you out’ and even then would be expected to try and fight that legally before any help given

You are in a vulnerable position. If he isn’t going to marry you then he needs to put your name on the house as of right now I’m not even sure you would get anything if you did split.

I don’t think I would trust his goodwill and base it on “trust” as his unwillingness to marry you would make me even more vigilant to get my name on the house just in case.

Also, you’re not a gold digger for expecting half after being with a man and having a child.

Where do women get this idea that asking a man to pay for anything makes you a gold digger? How have we come to a point where we even have women asking for men to be financially responsible for the woman who is keeping his home and the child they helped make as gold digging?

@mintybobs

I totally agree with others that you need to seek legal advice. HOWEVER, this isnt quite as bleak as others make out. My best friend is not married to her partner and it is HER name on the mortgage and the deeds of the house that they live in. She now wants to split and you would imagine that she held all the cards in this scenario but her solicitor has told her otherwise. Since her partner has been contributing financially towards their mortgage for years (and he can prove this via bank account records- contributions towards their joint account from which the mortgage is taken every month) she has been told that he has a right to 50% of the value of the house should they split even though it is in her sole name. She said the UK courts take a very dim view of people trying get everything of what is essentially an asset they have both contributed towards financially and they tend to favour splitting assets fairly despite whose name is on what. Its more about what has been financially contributed by both parties over time. Now, this doesnt mean you shouldnt protect yourself because you ABSOLUTELY should and I suggest you make an appointment to get legal advice first thing Monday morning. I would also suggest you get a legal agreement written up that you get back what you have put in to this arrangement. I'm merely saying this scenario is not as black and white as people make out.

Yes but OP isn’t contributing financially to the mortgage. She literally doesn’t have a penny to her name. And I strongly suspect that if she got a job, and asked to chip in to the mortgage payments, her DP would say no.

One of my other friends recently got kicked out by her partner. She luckily has a house rented out and no kids involved. But with him for years and no rights to his property. Just asked to leave with no notice 3 weeks after her Dad died. Just had to pack her stuff and go. Her home of years. She will probably never see his daughter again who she did loads for and was like a third parent in terms of childcare.

Please get some legal advice and get protected op. Don’t wait for a marriage that may never come.
Good guide marriage v cohabitation on CAB.
Why didn’t you do deed of trust re house to recognise your interest?
If you aren’t marrying then you shouldn’t act like it in my view. It’s to your detriment. So do best for you - you need to work full time and ensure you aren’t using your money on donkey work of family life while he pays for assets like house.
It’s not just if you split you need to consider but if he dies. You still don’t get bereavement support allowance (widows allowance) for example.
If he’s set against marriage why not register your relationship by doing a civil partnership?

How much are these children actually costing him, they are with their other parent 50% of the time, no childcare costs and possibly receiving child benefit for them so not such a huge financial sacrifice. Quite a gain through not having to pay for childcare for their child

[quote whateverintheworld]@neithernever - no lender would allow someone an ownership interest in a property they have a charge over who is not subject to the mortgage[/quote]
What I'm confused about is if a parent tried to give somebody a deposit, the mortgage company insist on a letter from that parent waiving any interest in the house. So why didn't the mortgage company query where the deposit has come from? Have you signed away your interest in the house OP?

If he makes ‘don’t do it’ jokes about marriage, then he doesn’t want to get married.