To hate how being quiet is seen as a problem

[Ireallydontcare55]

People who are very chatty, outgoing etc are usually seen as favourable and something to strive towards, I find. There are people who prefer quieter personalities but I feel like it’s in the minority.

I’m labelled as quiet/shy/reserved by virtually everybody, which is fine in itself but it’s often seen as something to have to improve and almost to cure.

My partner is fairly chatty and good at talking to people. I met an older female colleague of his the other week for literally a minute, and we made some very brief and insignificant small talk.

Apparently she then said to him, “She’s just so much quieter than you, you’re so different.”

I had seen her very briefly in passing, she hadn’t herself said anything of interest yet she apparently knows what I’m like.

I’ve had so many people refer to me behind my back as nervous. I do have a slightly nervous disposition but there’s nothing I can do about it, I try my best.

A male colleague has told me several times at work to ‘not be nervous’ despite me repeatedly telling him that I am not, and that I’m doing fine. Despite it surely coming from a good place, it’s just not helping me at all having it constantly commented on. I would never tell him to just stop being whatever.

I find that I’ve started to not bother trying to meet new people and just shut myself off from those I already know, it just seems easier.

I just feel picked on, constantly commented on and I hate being seen as having something wrong with me, what can I do ?

It works both ways. I find quiet people very hard work and exhausting. I'm not a complete extrovert myself but am comfortable with small talk and engaging with someone I don't know. It's difficult when you get nothing back and it can come across as rude/arrogant if you don't know someone well. Not all conversations have to be deep and meaningful and I find silence very awkward if I don't know the person.

@OutwiththeOutCrowd

I feel so strongly about this issue. My DS was constantly quiet-shamed in school and it drained his confidence. Studies show that introversion is largely genetic and an intrinsic part of personality. So, really, it should be a protected characteristic. No shaming allowed!

Being introverted and being quiet are two different things. If you “feel so strongly about this” I suggest you do some research.

You can still be introverted while not being a problem for everyone else around you because you rarely contribute and make the situation awkward.

Cordyceps oh dear, I don’t think you would like me, I definitely haven’t signed any ‘social contract’ .

"empty vessels make the most noise" is such a shitty thing to say. Being an introvert is good. Being an extrovert is good. The world needs both types of people and everyone in between. I'm married to a genuine, happy extrovert and they have brought so much joy and adventure to my life, and they've said that I've brought reflection and quiet happiness to theirs, and we would be so much less without each other. I don't mean to repeat what I said above but for many people their "introversion" is just an excuse to make other people do all the work, socially, while they just sit there and feel like some kind of wise, superior being who is too good for all this silly social nonsense. No, you're just lazy and mean.

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@TrueGrit54

Cordyceps oh dear, I don’t think you would like me, I definitely haven’t signed any ‘social contract’ .

Ah, do you live in the woods, off the grid, solar power, some kind of modern day hermit? That's pretty neat, though it's weird you're here being social on the internt.

I totally get this. More bombastic people seem to like to 'quiet shame' people. I have, however, found that people often mistake quiet for weak and are always surprised to find out that's not the case!

There are different kinds of quietness though aren’t there? Lots of quieter people still have presence and chip in with helpful things at work or contribute socially even while not talking much. Being a friendly good companion.

Others act like they’d rather be anywhere else, even if they’ve solicited your company. I find that very hard work even though I know some people can’t help it. As a louder person sometimes you can feel like you’re the entertainment and they just want to watch you talk. (I have a quiet relative who has literally said as much!) It does get tiring and make you feel silly.

I don’t think there’s any need to slag off noisy people “empty vessels” etc. Lots of people speak more because they are concerned about making others comfortable, if that doesn’t work for you - fine. It doesn’t mean very talkative person is a windbag and it’s as unkind to generalise like that as to say every quiet person is a Mousey little wet weekend.

I have a really bad stammer which I've learned to mostly control. So I'm a frustrated extrovert! Often I can't get the words out I want to say. I don't mind if people are quiet or loud. We need a mix of both. I'm very careful not to label people either way though.

Although I'm extroverted, I crave time alone to be quiet so I'd imagine most people are a mix of both.

Yes!! My other half is quiet and reserved and when my family first met him they would make comments like “oh he’s very quiet” in the same tone you might refer to a murderer

@Fairyliz

It’s funny how things have changed over the years. I went to school in the 1960’s and it was considered a good thing to be quiet; I had many complimentary comments on reports etc to that effect. My children went to school in the 1990’s and got constant they need to speak up comments. Weird!

I'd be interested to know whether those complimentary comments would have been directed at you had you been a boy though. My guess is that they liked you to be quiet because that's how girls were expected to behave.

Quietness is often perceived more favourably in women than in men because its a sign of compliance and reluctance to challenge authority.

It's worth unpicking this a bit: I do understand why its frustrating for a naturally quiet person to be prodded to come out of your shell all the time when it goes against the grain.

But girls in particular need to learn to speak up for themselves if they are going to get anywhere in life because at school, college and in the workplace quiet girls will just get drowned out by boys. So in this context it makes more sense to encourage girls to come out of themselves a lot.

While I agree with the "empty vessels make most noise" sentiment and boorishness is far worse than reticence, there is surely, as with most things, a balance to be struck?

I used to host a lot before the pandemic and I have had quite a few guests at the table (usually men) who have their heads down in their dishes without speaking to anyone for for the entire meal, and then they say "thanks" and leave! I find this quite rude tbh! I am a person who is sensitive to shyness, as my teen dd is quite shy, and I would always try and put a nervous person at ease and would never put them on the spot, but I think everyone should try and contribute to the success of a social gathering and make a small effort if you accept hospitality, and not just "take", or shyness can turn in to "I am too special to show interest in others" type rudeness.

As for school, I think teachers say things like "I wish Susan would participate more" because they genuinely find it hard to assess a student who doesn't join in much or volunteer answers. It can be hard to tell whether they are quiet because they are shy, or because they don't understand or they are deliber ately avoiding a subject. It would be nice if teachers didn't assume the worst based on someone's shyness, but equally, I think it is fair enough for them to comment in a professional context.

Quiet shaming kids is crap. But in a work context many kinds of work do depend on the free sharing of info or ideas, and someone who is more comfortable silently working alone just won’t be ideal in all roles (just as I’d be rubbish at quietly writing reports for example).

@thepeopleversuswork and louder boys to shut up a bit then!

Cordyceps I can see how quiet people might come across as draining at social occasions ( which is why I usually try to avoid them 😉) but I certainly don't see that it is my job as a quiet person to entertain my colleagues! If I make them feel uncomfortable then that's their problem not mine - there is a whole lot of irritating behaviour I have had to put up with over the years in the workplace after all and nobody has bothered about my feeling uncomfortable!

"Empty vessels make most noise" is indeed horrible. I've heard this more and more recently.

I've noticed also there's been, particularly since COVID, a blossoming of a kind of cult of introversion which goes, basically, introverts are deep thinkers and self-sufficient people while extroverts are insecure show-offs. It's become more socially acceptable to be quiet, which is great, but sometimes its tipped over into mocking those people who need social contact or thrive on being with other people, which is not so great.

There is definitely a balance to be struck: not least because the vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle of the spectrum and its not helpful to polarise people in this binary way.

We need to encourage people to be able to communicate clearly in a way that suits their personality, without shaming either the very outgoing or the very quiet.

I can totally relate to this. I have been perceived as "aloof" and "rude" whereas really I am just quiet. I would like to be more chatty and warm, but I'm not, and find chatting and socialising hard work.

Also quiet and shy get mixed up a lot admittedly because sometimes they do go hand in hand. Im quiet and introverted (and proud!) but am very capable of sharing ideas in a meeting or presenting to a whole room of people which I do frequently. I used to be shy as a child and worked on that a lot and have developed my confidence but can't change being quiet and introverted that's just my personality! Once you seperate the 2 it is very helpful I found.

Had this throughout my life. In school, at work, in-laws. I accept people the way they are, why is it so hard for them to do the same for me? My quietness doesn't cause issues when it comes to my quality of work or my relationship with my partner, or when I was in school (apart from maybe not asking for help when I needed it). I don't know why it's always such a big deal. Some people just crave negativity I think, and they like to try and see negative in all aspects of life, even when there's none there.

@Bergamot2017

Cordyceps I can see how quiet people might come across as draining at social occasions ( which is why I usually try to avoid them 😉) but I certainly don't see that it is my job as a quiet person to entertain my colleagues! If I make them feel uncomfortable then that's their problem not mine - there is a whole lot of irritating behaviour I have had to put up with over the years in the workplace after all and nobody has bothered about my feeling uncomfortable!

Being polite and either offering a suggestion for music or accepting what I chose when they said “I don’t mind” in my example of being stuck in a car with a colleague didn’t require that they entertain me, just that they not be a dick and make me feel bored and on edge for two hours. I don’t ask anyone to entertain me and when I had to work in an office, I would literally hide in the server room at lunch to avoid small talk in the break room

• I don’t like it either- but at the same time I was pleasant and made at least a small effort to be pleasant and to take an interest in people around me. People who can’t even be bothered with that are not special precious flowers, they’re entitled arseholes.

YANBU - my MIL sees shyness as a total sin and seems to think that everyone will be as judgemental as she is about anyone quiet and think they're 'weird' and 'rude'. Has always pissed me off.

Early in our relationship I was tarnished with this brush - I'm not that shy but a bit awkward and can vary between quiet and blathering out my whole life story. DH, early in our relationship, still had his mother's social/status anxiety (which he's since dropped) and used to occasionally chide me for seeming 'shy' but I'd sometimes tell him I thought I was doing just fine, thanks, and he was reading too much into things, plus most people understand shyness and don't have an issue with it.

Yes, like Hidethecrisps, I'm happy to contribute at work, and to present etc.

People who can’t even be bothered with that are not special precious flowers, they’re entitled arseholes.

I think its more complicated than this.

My other half is naturally quiet and struggles with venturing opinions when they haven't been actively sought because he was brought up to think that it was rude to have opinions. I came from a family where everyone had an opinion and it was constantly aired. We've talked about this a lot and he's learned to come out of himself a bit but it doesn't feel "right" to him to talk about serious stuff with people unless he knows them really well.

You have to take people's cultural backgrounds and their upbringing into account. People who are very reluctant to express opinions or state a choice have often been brought up to think its rude to do so.

I personally find quiet people quite hard work: it makes me feel awkward and uncomfortable when someone won't attempt to meet me half way conversationally but I have learned over time that that's my problem and not theirs. There is a need for some give and take, conversationally, to oil the wheels of society, but some people will always find this hard.

People who are very chatty, outgoing etc are usually seen as favourable and something to strive towards

Except in primary school classrooms
Or at formal events like weddings & funerals & church services
Or at the cinema or theatre
Or in nice restaurants
Or on public transport
Or...

but sure... make out that the poor naturally "quiet" folk are terribly put upon in every area of life. Knock yourself out with that one.

I sympathise, OP. I often find myself babbling loudly and mindlessly at people I've just met so that I can't be blamed for awkward silences and told I'm "quiet". I got it a lot when I was young. Now I think it's gauche in itself to call people "quiet".
People such as the ones Cordyceps describes are not "quiet"; they are just black holes of misery.