To think my fiancé is being unrealistic about parenting?

[pinkdaffodils90]

So I’ve been with my fiancé for 5 years, engaged for 2 (postponed due to covid, fingers crossed for next summer) and for the last few years we have talked about moving out of Oxford so we can afford a bigger house and start a family. We’ve always agreed that we only wanted one and that we definitely weren’t ready yet, but as the years have gone on I still haven’t felt ready and have been more and more put off the idea. There’s a few reasons for this-

1. My fiancé has BPD which is largely under control, but does flare up under stress- the upheaval of moving house last year was the closest we’ve ever come to breaking up. Sleep deprivation is also a big trigger for this.

1. We both really enjoy our own space and spending time on separate hobbies. Our perfect weekend (and what we do most Saturdays) is brunch together, then separate afternoons doing our own thing before coming back together for a film and glass of wine in the evening. I know this wouldn’t be possible if we had a child, we’d both have to give up a lot of our independence, and I really don’t want to.

1. We both get stressed when our ‘to-do’ list gets too long in our free time. We both have high pressure jobs with long hours, so our evenings and weekends are precious. I can’t imagine having to constantly worry about childcare, the school run, spending weekends ferrying them back and forth to clubs etc. He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

I don’t seem to be able to get through to him that I have genuine concerns about how we’d manage and how happy it would make us, he just thinks I’m doubting my abilities. I’m sure I’d be a good mum if I wanted to be one, but I don’t. He keeps talking about wanting to take them camping and on bike rides and give his parents a grandchild to spoil, and I think he’s hyper focused on those idealised moments and not the actual reality.

We have a wonderful relationship and I absolutely adore him, I can’t imagine my life without him, but this is really starting to cause a problem. I don’t want to let him down, but I really don’t think he’s got a clear head about this. I wonder if it’s his biological clock? He’s 42 and I’m 31.

I suppose I’m mostly just venting, but any advice would be very welcome.

I think if you don't want a child it would be a challenge to be a 'good Mum' as 'good' mothering is not just about fulfilling a checklist of physical caring for a child, you will need to be emotionally available, warm and loving. Surely you will resent a child if you don't want one?

Don't have kids with him if you don't want but you can NOT decide for him not to have kids and he clearly wants them, no amount of your bias logical will take away his biological longing... honestly cut the rope and let him go instead of dragging him along.

If this was the other way round people would be saying you can't force him to have kids but you should leave and likely accusing him of having lied and strung you along.

You don't get everything you want and if you want him and he wants kids and you won't have kids then likely you don't get him. At the end of the day, it was you who moved the goalposts set out in your early relationship changing the terms not him and he doesn't have to conform to your new wants.

if a woman came on here, and said that she has bipolar, but it's largely controlled (although struggles in stressful situations), and she wanted a baby,n would be full of women saying his they've managed to have a family what also having MH struggles.

If the OP's husband came on here and asked for advice about whether it could work and how to make it work, then I'm sure there would be plenty of support for him. But he isn't. He wants the baby but he wont even discuss the potential problems with the OP, much less seek out help to find solutions. And that's a bad sign.

My husband does more than 50% and has done from birth.

Well that's great for you but it's clearly not going to happen for the OP and that's who we're concerned about. Her husband has a job which wont allow it, and he has no other practical ideas about how to make parenting work. All he says is "we'll manage" which means nothing.

Good grief there’s nothing wrong with him wanting to have a child, so what if he has a romanticised view of parenting - isn’t that how most people start?

Exactly. And more than that, many people start off completely useless but then become great parents. Given his career and his doing his share of the chores it sounds like he isnt afraid of hard work which puts him above 20-30% of parents before he's even begun.

Together since age 25 and 37! Problem 1 - why so long with no commitment? He's 12 years older than you. That's problem 2.
If this was reverse of genders then what you have done would be very immoral. And you'd get rounded on, on MN.
Luckily men dont have the same biological clock.
He needs to find someone new, and fast. Even for men it'll be harder after 50.

This is where you borrow a child from a grateful parent for a week.

@crystal1717

Together since age 25 and 37! Problem 1 - why so long with no commitment? He's 12 years older than you. That's problem 2. If this was reverse of genders then what you have done would be very immoral. And you'd get rounded on, on MN. Luckily men dont have the same biological clock. He needs to find someone new, and fast. Even for men it'll be harder after 50.

We’ve been together 5 years and engaged for 2, that doesn’t seem that abnormal! He was in a previous long-term relationship in the past, I think it was about 5 years, but it didn’t work out. He’s obviously always found relationships a bit trickier because of his bipolar, I know he’s a lot more settled and coping better now than he was a decade ago. The age difference has never mattered to us, we are very happy together.

I don’t agree that I’ve been immoral. As you said, I was in my mid-twenties when we met. We agreed there was no hurry but assumed we’d both want a child. I’ve got older and settled into routines and as the hypothetical future has come closer, realised that the ‘feeling ready’ hasn’t happened yet and I don’t know if it will. I also have seen how issues like the pandemic, moving house etc. have affected his mental health and that has given me reason to rethink too.

Nobody should have a child if they don't want one. But you owe your fiancé honesty. Everyone deserves that.

I dont think you should move out of Oxford. The plan for that was to buy a family home for kids right?

I'd stay put.

Yes I agree with above, you've got to live the life of a parent as much as possible but I would say that just because your DP has an idealised view of it it doesn't mean it is doomed to fail. The important thing with decisions is that you get behind the choice you make and you are committed to it. So on his part it could be absolutely fine but I'd worry about you as you don't want to get behind that choice so can't possibly add value to it.

He's right that people do manage but it does seem like you aren't ready yet to make inevitable sacrifices. There's no leisurely brunches or separate activities for at least the first few years (well you could alternate Saturdays I suppose)

I have a crystal ball. The rough bits of parenting will be stressful,for him and either/or you'll pick of of them up/he'll struggle mentally. You'll get resentful and eventually you'll break up. Then the child will spend the next 40 years dealing with this.

I see an awful lot of adult children of people with significant MH Issues not doing well. And I know there is a general feeling of 'people with challenges should have children if they want' but I think all of us wonder if we will cope and give our children a good life. He hasn't done that thinking.

I think if you really wanted a child with him, you wouldn't be looking for reasons not to. I don't blame you - I didn't want kids until I was around 36 .Luckily my husband (who is the same age as me) reached the same conclusion around the same time. Sounds like you are either not ready yourself, or deep down you know you don't want him as a father to your children.

It also sounds like you are perhaps at different life stages. I broke up with my first fiance when I was 27 as he wanted to settle down with kids (he was 7 years older than me). I agree with pp best to tell him sooner rather than later if it is a deal breaker for him and give him the chance to meet someone who wants the same as he does.

Let's consider the potential child here- a bipolar dad will have a huge impact on their life!

The child may not be neurotypical so it's worth checking the SEN boards for life with this in mind compounded by a mentally unwell father who is unable to help due to rigid shift patterns.

Your weekends currently sound idyllic. I can't think of anything more guaranteed to wreak havoc in your life than having a baby given your set up.

You would be filled with resentment for the rest of your life if he couldn't cope and neither could you.

Don't even go there!

I think it is only fair to him to say that you may never want children.
You absolutely shouldn't try for baby unless you are sure.
However if he really wants children then now is the time for him to break up, and find someone on the same page.
Don't marry him without resolving this issue first.

You don't want a child. (with him?)
He does.
You need to make it absolutely clear to him that you do not want a child with him
He is then free to decide whether he wants to continue in the relationship or not.

Do you think you would want a child with someone else who does not have this mental health issue? Sounds like you can't envisage how it would work under these circumstances and perhaps that is putting you off.
Or perhaps you know for sure that you do not want a child, at all, ever.
Either way this needs to be explored a lot more before you marry him.

You present life sounds ideal. You are right to have your concerns about introducing children into the mix. Having children can be like a bomb going off in the soundest of relationships. Many relationships do not survive the stress and upheaval that can be involved. I thought I knew what it would be like. I did not, not by a long shot. We got through, but my goodness, it has been tough (and continues to be as new stages and issues arrive).

Just to be clear, he knows. I’ve told him multiple times over several weeks/maybe months by now. He’s just not taking me seriously. I’ve told him he can leave if he wants children with someone else, and he says he doesn’t. The issue is that he just won’t seem to take it in. Thank you for all the advice- particularly those of you who’ve pointed out that maybe I’ve made it sound too conditional or given him hope I’ll change my mind- maybe I’ll write it in a letter to make sure he understands.

Unless worst case scenario you are willing to raise the baby solo then you have every right to say no. Given you almost split up over a house move, the stress of raising children will be like a bomb going off in your relationship. If he is unable to pull his weight because you are having to pick up all the slack to prevent him relapsing, and if you are not 100% about having kids then it will lead to massive resentment.

Yes kids can be joyful and fun, but that's a small minority of the time, most times they are noisy and demanding and inherently selfish (survival mechanism). Even when you really want kids its hard, its a damn sight harder if you didnt really want them.
you are right to have concerns, I think you are being very sensible about this.

one thing to say which no one has said to OP. REALLY REALLY keep control of the contraception.

I'm a bit surprised at all the people saying that OP's life sounds so amazing she naturally won't want to change a thing. It sounds... normal? And actually being happy doing your own thing for the afternoon is ideal if you have children as you can just trade off doing that - it's if you want to do lots of un-child-friendly things together that it becomes very hard without a lot of outside help. None of this is to say that you should have children but again that's because you don't want them, not because you're 'logically' right that you shouldn't have them.

'I'm sure I'd be a good mum if I wanted to be one, but I don't.'
This is all you need to say isn't it?
My DH (39) and I (37) have decided against kids for similar reasons to yours. We don't have mental health problems, but have seen friends have kids with no family help nearby (we live hours from our family) and dont want it for ourselves. We also, like you, enjoy peace and quiet and downtime.
But I think the ability to objectively assess such a huge life decision comes from not
really wanting kids in the first place.

Well, you say he knows, but we don't know for sure so he probably doesn't know for sure either. Why are you having arguments over to-do lists and childcare if you are really definite that you don't want a child at all? If that's the really case then answer to everything he says from now on needs to be "I don't want a child".

"I don't want a child"
"We'd manage, people do"
"But I don't want a child"
"Why not?"
"I just don't want a child"
and rinse and repeat.

But there is a huge difference between knowing you don't want a child and not knowing how/if you would manage with a child. Seems to me that you are still in the second territory, and that if you and your DP could work out a reliable and credible plan about about how you would both manage then you might want a child after all. But maybe you can't both make such a plan because there really isn't one. And that's why he's avoiding the hard questions and focussing on camping and bike rides.

Not to be going off topic but do you love him or is this relationship hard work from the point of view of his mental fragility? Im not implying you should or shouldn't have children based on the answer but are there more fundamental questions here than the choice to have kids?

@Marple03

Not to be going off topic but do you love him or is this relationship hard work from the point of view of his mental fragility? Im not implying you should or shouldn't have children based on the answer but are there more fundamental questions here than the choice to have kids?

I love him very much, he’s the best person I know. It’s hard when he’s having a bad patch, but we get through.