To think my fiancé is being unrealistic about parenting?

[pinkdaffodils90]

So I’ve been with my fiancé for 5 years, engaged for 2 (postponed due to covid, fingers crossed for next summer) and for the last few years we have talked about moving out of Oxford so we can afford a bigger house and start a family. We’ve always agreed that we only wanted one and that we definitely weren’t ready yet, but as the years have gone on I still haven’t felt ready and have been more and more put off the idea. There’s a few reasons for this-

1. My fiancé has BPD which is largely under control, but does flare up under stress- the upheaval of moving house last year was the closest we’ve ever come to breaking up. Sleep deprivation is also a big trigger for this.

1. We both really enjoy our own space and spending time on separate hobbies. Our perfect weekend (and what we do most Saturdays) is brunch together, then separate afternoons doing our own thing before coming back together for a film and glass of wine in the evening. I know this wouldn’t be possible if we had a child, we’d both have to give up a lot of our independence, and I really don’t want to.

1. We both get stressed when our ‘to-do’ list gets too long in our free time. We both have high pressure jobs with long hours, so our evenings and weekends are precious. I can’t imagine having to constantly worry about childcare, the school run, spending weekends ferrying them back and forth to clubs etc. He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

I don’t seem to be able to get through to him that I have genuine concerns about how we’d manage and how happy it would make us, he just thinks I’m doubting my abilities. I’m sure I’d be a good mum if I wanted to be one, but I don’t. He keeps talking about wanting to take them camping and on bike rides and give his parents a grandchild to spoil, and I think he’s hyper focused on those idealised moments and not the actual reality.

We have a wonderful relationship and I absolutely adore him, I can’t imagine my life without him, but this is really starting to cause a problem. I don’t want to let him down, but I really don’t think he’s got a clear head about this. I wonder if it’s his biological clock? He’s 42 and I’m 31.

I suppose I’m mostly just venting, but any advice would be very welcome.

These are all sensible things to be considering.

As pp have mentioned, be crystal clear that he will have the option of ducking out of the shitty, boring bits of parenting and just rocking up for the "magic moments", leaving you to organise your life around the mundane bits of . Especially if he can't cope with the inevitable stress and sleeplessness that children bring.

If you really wanted a child then that might be a risk you would be willing to take, but it doesn't sound like you're up for it, and THAT'S OK.

However, you need to be 100% clear to him and let him choose to go another path if children are really important to him.

@Aprilx

You seem to think that you are correct and he is wrong and not seeing clearly, just because he wants children!

It is fine that you do not want children and your reasons all seem rational, but it is also fine that he wants children. The problem is that you want different things, not that he is in the wrong, which from the way you have written this, sounds like you think is the case.

Hmm I’d say the it’s not the wanting children that’s the issue but the responsibility. It’s fine if someone wants children but are willing to take responsibility.

I know a few couples where one really wanted children, the other was ‘meh’. Both did their part but the one who wanted children was prepared to give up their free time, career etc.

In this case he wants children but hasn’t thought about how he will deal with Late nights , or emergencies. Looks like he wants a cute kid to play Disney dad without all of the hard work.

I honestly wouldn't have children in your situation. Dp and I also love our own space, which is why we only had one child. It's still really, really hard. The sleep deprivation for the first few years made me lose my mind, I'm still not quite right mentally now and dc is school age.... I love our lives with dc and although dp and I have a great relationship, most of the childcare responsibilities have fallen to me. I feel a bit like I'm failing everything - failing at work, at keeping the house from utter chaos, not getting enough sleep or exercise or healthy food, not being enough for dc. It's a lot to take on.

He needs brought back down to earth and sharp. Having children is not for him, not unless he plans to bring in an au pair basically. That's the only way he will cope I think.

You don't have to just 'manage' with children if you don't want to. I don't want to just 'cope' with children, it usually ends up in depression. I have this same issue with my partner, I don't want children to become my responsibility, he's the one that wants them. But I know they would, so it's not happening.

I'm the same as you too, I have hobbies I will not give up, and they aren't that great to involve babies with. I'm too selfish to be a good mother, I value my free time and down time, I like being able to relax and not worth about anyone else.

It's a bad idea for you both. You'll likely hate it, resent him and split up so you'll be a single mother. Don't do it unless you absolutely want children.

You don’t want kids which is fine of course but he does. I think you need to be clear with him that you don’t as sounds like he thinks you’ll come around. Don’t get married unless he doesn’t want kids either.

You don’t want kids, you need to break up with him.

Though maybe you just don’t want kids with him,

If you don't want a child then absolutely don't have one, but be honest with him and then he can make the decision of whether he is okay to stay and never be a father, or whether he wants to move on and find someone who wants the same as him.

'You don't have to just 'manage' with children if you don't want to. I don't want to just 'cope' with children, it usually ends up in depression.'

I thought exactly the same when I felt very strong urges to have children. Do I want to spend my life 'managing', and just about 'coping'? Or do I need life to be much more on my terms, and much more enjoyable for me? Your life sounds really lovely OP. Time, peace and quiet, sleep, hobbies you enjoy - these are very precious things that many people would give their right arm for. You don't gamble all of that away on fairytales

At the end of the day, men get to only consider the idealised moments of parenthood because often that's all that is expected of them. Look at all the threads on here about dads who DO opt out of the hard work part. You will be the one doing the majority of the drudge day in day out, especially if his mental health issues flare up, and so absolutely do not even consider having a child if it isn't what YOU want.

Do many of your friends have kids? I dont want to be the 'you might change your mind' type, but I do think that if your current circle is mostly childfree but plan to have families, you might feel differently about your social life etc when everyone else is too busy with kids to get together. I'm 33 and gradually finding that I've got fewer and fewer childfree things to do anyway as my friends all start having babies, and so the idea of getting to join in seems more appealing than it did.

If you definitely don’t want to have kids, then you need to have The Conversation. Yes, he’s probably is imaging the Disney elements, but you can’t string him along pretending it’s a ‘maybe in the future’ rather than a ‘no’. It’s unfair on both of you.

You must resolve this before you get married.
It sounds like your preference not to have children is the more sensible/reasonable one. But if it is a "no" he needs to hear this very clearly from you.

My hackles rose at "we'll manage, people do". That is the attitude of a lot of men which actually means "we'll manage because, as the woman/mother, you will pick up all the slack and my life won't really change". The warning signs are already there in that sleep deprivation and stress threatens his health condition. So you know now that all the sleepless nights will be on you. All the stresses and strains of juggling work/child/life will be on you.

I have children I adore and you are dead right that the perfect little moments in time are few and far between. A lot of it is hard work, repetitive, frustrating and boring. For me it has all been worth it, but I have been able to share the burden with a hands on husband/father. Without sharing that I am sure I would have found it far less rewarding.

Your life sounds bloody awesome by the way. I would not want to mess it up either!

And I agree with the poster above who said above that you’re taking the position that he’s in the wrong. Him wanting kids is as valid as you not wanting them.

If you're in a good place and want things to stay the same that's ok. Children are not an obligation.

You don’t want to be a parent and he does. I don’t think you will be able to convince him to not want to be a father. You have a choice to split up or one of you will have to make a massive compromise. A good friend chose not to have children because his DW didn’t want them and he didn’t want to split up with her. They are both too old to have them now. He seems reasonably happy but it hasn’t been great for him. It may have been worse if they did have children though!

@Pedalpushers

At the end of the day, men get to only consider the idealised moments of parenthood because often that's all that is expected of them. Look at all the threads on here about dads who DO opt out of the hard work part. You will be the one doing the majority of the drudge day in day out, especially if his mental health issues flare up, and so absolutely do not even consider having a child if it isn't what YOU want.

Do many of your friends have kids? I dont want to be the 'you might change your mind' type, but I do think that if your current circle is mostly childfree but plan to have families, you might feel differently about your social life etc when everyone else is too busy with kids to get together. I'm 33 and gradually finding that I've got fewer and fewer childfree things to do anyway as my friends all start having babies, and so the idea of getting to join in seems more appealing than it did.

The first paragraph is a good point! People with known issues should really consider the impact of kids. As an example DP and I are both ND with poor executive functioning. And I can’t cope with a lack of sleep at all. It would be impossible for us to have kids alongside maintaining a FT job unless we had a full time housekeeper or something. I looked after younger cousins as a teenager and even that was hard for me 😂 We have quite a few years before we need to decide but we’re still building our careers and neither of us are quite ready to give it up.

Thé short is : if you’re not ready to sacrifice you’re not ready to have a kid. Is he willing to sacrifice?

If I were you , I wouldn't have a child.
If he doesn't handle stress well it would be a nightmare.

I totally disagree with loads of people on here.
I have children and am soo soo grateful that I didn't fully consider how hard it would be. Because I might not have ever done it.
It is all encompassing and life changing and at times brutally hard but also inexpressibly wonderful. I would not want to live my life without my children.
So my advice is don't think about the difficulties of jt, you do manage to get through that, even with mental health disorders (which I have). There's great support available for that.
Instead focus on those idyllic moments of your child calling you mummy for the first time, or the pride when you see them in a school play, and the unexpected moments of fun and laughter and love that happen day to day.
If the ideas of those moments don't fill you with joy, then you know you don't want kids. Focus on the good, not the bad. Is the good good enough for you? Base your decision about having kids on that. That's what your husband is doing. If you're not on the same page after you've decided that, everyone else is right, he's not the partner for you nor you you him.

It sounds like you really don't want a child, OP. That is absolutely fine, but you do need to be honest because you have previously discussed having a child so it would be reasonable for him to feel that you have mis-led him.

But don't let him convince you to have a baby unless you genuinely do change your mind! Your reasons are valid and as other posters have said it's likely the burden will fall on you more than him.

How about if you suggest that you return to work fairly soon, and he takes parental leave to look after the baby for a few months? His answer to that should give you some insight into how committed he is to being an active parent.

Taking them on bike rides and taking them camping isn't going to happen until the child is at least six. And when it does, it's not much time out of weeks and months where they need everyday care. Who is going to be responsible for that? Does he think children are like dolls, get them out of a cupboard to play with them then put them back?

And no way do you have children just to give your parents a grandchild to spoil.

OP you have recognised that it would be very difficult for you. This may be a dealbreaker, but don't go along with him just to stay together. You could very soon resent him when you're doing the night wakings, all the nappy changing, basically everything until he decides he wants to be a Disney dad for an hour or two.

Thank you to everyone for your replies. Just to answer a couple of things-

I have absolutely tried to make it clear to him on multiple occasions that I don’t want a baby and I don’t think I will change my mind, I’ve tried to have the conversation a lot but he’s not ready to hear it yet. He has said he wouldn’t expect me to have a baby just for him and that he wants to be with me regardless, but it’s hard to know how genuine that is when I know he’s still not really taking in what I’m saying- I try to have a serious conversation but he’ll only talk very casually and hypothetically. Our communication is usually really strong so this is frustrating and confusing!

I think even with a partner without his mental health problems, I wouldn’t want a baby. I love my life with him, he does make me so happy, even if he’s being a PITA at the moment! I can’t imagine being with someone else.

He’s very good around the house, we’re basically 50-50 with chores and he doesn’t need prompting, he lived alone for nearly a decade before we met so I’m lucky he’s pretty self sufficient!

Having said that, I can absolutely imagine most of the childcare falling to me due to practicalities. He’s got a fairly unique specialism in the NHS so his hours are all over the place, including night shifts and 24 hour on-calls, I suspect going to a 9-5 wouldn’t be an option, whereas my work could be more flexible. We both have lovely parents and I get on very well with my future in-laws, but they’re not local and both sets are in their late sixties/seventies, so wouldn’t want to be regular childcare.

Funnily enough most of my closest friends in their thirties do have children and I love hanging out with them and sitting have a matter and a coffee on a park bench while the children run around, and I’m very close with my nephew too and did a lot of babysitting before they moved further away. My partner’s friends are mostly in their forties and don’t have children, so it’s not really a life he sees. He likes my nephew and they’ve had some fun days out together, but that’s very different from the reality of having a child 24/7.

If you don't want to have kids (doesn't sound like you do by what you write) then fine but you need to tell your fiance now. He's already 42 so if he wants children that he can do all the things he lists with he needs to be an age where he can still do those things. Sooner you tell him, sooner he can move on and find someone who wants the same things as him.

Also, I absolutely didn’t mean to suggest that wanting children is wrong and I apologise if I caused any offence. I just worry that he’s not thinking enough about whether it’s the right choice for him and his lifestyle/medical condition.

He has the rose tinted glasses on here and getting to the ' good bits ' of parenting does take a few years to actually get to ! Taking them camping or fishing and that being a pleasurable experience could take up to five or six years ( if your lucky)
Plus you'll end up giving up your activities and career whilst his won't suffer much of a dent
I do have children and was very naive back then about how much they do change your life , but o found out the hard way!
I love my two to pieces , but it's tough and sounds like your partner is only seeing the upsides to any of it.

What he is imagining with kids is the lovely stuff. The heartwarming bits. Its not about being realistic or unrealistic. If you broke it all down into practicalities and logic, of course nobody would ever want to have children, but those little things like a successful family holiday and the carrying on of the family - grandparent and grandchildren type thing - thats a certain type of fulfillment that its hardly unusual or mad to want.

On the other hand, I think youre absolutely right with your doubts and I totally see your point and why youre not up for this. You know it will be harder than what he is imagining and the reality of life with kids is not these magic moments. Its hard work and its always putting someone else first and that person you are putting first is generally unreasonable and loud and messy and smelly and wild and you have the job of taming it and loving it forever. Its a pressure that can break peoples relationships and their bodies and minds.
Its one of those things you need to be on the same page about as theres not really many compromises to be had.
Difficult conversation coming up. Either one of you leads a life they dont want, or you split up

I think even with a partner without his mental health problems, I wouldn’t want a baby. I love my life with him, he does make me so happy, even if he’s being a PITA at the moment! I can’t imagine being with someone else.

This is your answer - you dont' want kids.

Personally I wouldn't have a child with him under any circumstances and think it would be a huge mistake.

But I have direct line of sight on "BPD parenting in action" and I feel tremendously sorry for the kids living with BPD is not fun for kids.