To think my fiancé is being unrealistic about parenting?

[pinkdaffodils90]

So I’ve been with my fiancé for 5 years, engaged for 2 (postponed due to covid, fingers crossed for next summer) and for the last few years we have talked about moving out of Oxford so we can afford a bigger house and start a family. We’ve always agreed that we only wanted one and that we definitely weren’t ready yet, but as the years have gone on I still haven’t felt ready and have been more and more put off the idea. There’s a few reasons for this-

1. My fiancé has BPD which is largely under control, but does flare up under stress- the upheaval of moving house last year was the closest we’ve ever come to breaking up. Sleep deprivation is also a big trigger for this.

1. We both really enjoy our own space and spending time on separate hobbies. Our perfect weekend (and what we do most Saturdays) is brunch together, then separate afternoons doing our own thing before coming back together for a film and glass of wine in the evening. I know this wouldn’t be possible if we had a child, we’d both have to give up a lot of our independence, and I really don’t want to.

1. We both get stressed when our ‘to-do’ list gets too long in our free time. We both have high pressure jobs with long hours, so our evenings and weekends are precious. I can’t imagine having to constantly worry about childcare, the school run, spending weekends ferrying them back and forth to clubs etc. He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

I don’t seem to be able to get through to him that I have genuine concerns about how we’d manage and how happy it would make us, he just thinks I’m doubting my abilities. I’m sure I’d be a good mum if I wanted to be one, but I don’t. He keeps talking about wanting to take them camping and on bike rides and give his parents a grandchild to spoil, and I think he’s hyper focused on those idealised moments and not the actual reality.

We have a wonderful relationship and I absolutely adore him, I can’t imagine my life without him, but this is really starting to cause a problem. I don’t want to let him down, but I really don’t think he’s got a clear head about this. I wonder if it’s his biological clock? He’s 42 and I’m 31.

I suppose I’m mostly just venting, but any advice would be very welcome.

Honestly you dont even need to think about "bringing him round" to the idea of not wanting kids.

Just keep firm in your stance. "I will not be having kids".

If he wastes his time trying to convince you otherwise then pretty soon that's going to grate enough that you ask him to leave.

He knows what you want. Or in this case dont want. He needs to stop talking about kids if he has made the decision to stay and remain child free.

Virtually all prospective parents focus mostly on the “good side” of how things will be. If that weren’t the case why the hell would anyone become parents?

As for “doesn’t deal with stress well” - this can be said for 80% of adults/parents, at least some of the time. People adapt and make do.

The one and only issue is that you don’t want to be a parent as the current set up suits you fine. So it’s not really about him at all.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

he just thinks I’m doubting my abilities.

No, you are doubting his abilities. Sure, you must be wondering whether you can fill the gaps that he is likely to leave, but you need to confront the possibility that he's not a brilliant bet as a father. How will he cope with sleep deprivation? What if his BPD flares up again - will you have look after everyone? How will he support you?

One big question you need to ask yourself is, do you really not want children at all? Or do you want children but only with a stronger, more reliable father?

This is something you could realistically explore together in marriage counselling. I would do that before starting a family.

^This.

Be sure that it's not just your current partner and situation that is putting you off children....

He is saying you would be a great Mother, what does he think he would be like as a Father?

It sound's like you would be doing 90% of the parenting and I'm not sure anyone really wants children in those circumstances.

You don’t want a child, the rest of it doesn’t matter tbh.

That’s fine but you need to make sure he knows that if he wants dc it won’t be with you.

When I got with my now Dh I already had dc, he didn’t. I was honest from the start and said that I won’t have any more so he wouldn’t have any biological children if he stayed with me. He stayed (and is a great step father) we do talk about what might have been but we recognise all the things we couldn’t have done if we had more dc.

I think you've got a really good handle on the realities of parenthood.

Could you give up 1 weekend and offer to babysit your nephew for the weekend so your partner could get a glimpse at hat it is really like?

BPD = exacerbated by stress which you have already witnessed for yourself.

Being a parent = massive cause of stress which continues for years.

When I worked in psych hospitals there were certain clients with conditions like BPD and Schizophrenia where I would really hope they never had kids. Sounds mean but you could see it would not be good for anyone.

Ps - I don't want to - that really stood out for me in your post. maybe that is what you need to tell him. I know I could, but I don't want to. There is no arguing with that.

The other thing about his age is that I remember reading that the quality of men's sperm diminishes with age in the same way that the quantity/quality of women's eggs do. The article went on to say that this could account for the rise in autism.
If you were to wait a few years and you had a child that was autistic, how would he cope with that?

Please don't have a child because at the moment you really don't sound ready and you may never be! A lot of the concerns you raise are completely real and valid. If you have a child under these circumstances you will probably resent the time and effort. Your OH seems to have rose tinted glasses on too. Honestly I think you need to tell him how you feel and split up if necessary - even if you do decide to eventually have a child I am not sure if he's the right person for you to parent with.

And I agree with the poster above who said above that you’re taking the position that he’s in the wrong. Him wanting kids is as valid as you not wanting them.
He has a challenging condition exacerbated by lack of sleep and stress. ‘We’ll manage’ is a lie; this man is, even more so than usual, expecting the woman in his life to take on the majority of the burden of a child to preserve his health but not bothering to discuss or acknowledge this, just assuming it will be his right to protect his time and his health while it will be her obligation to parent 24/7. This is what puts him in the wrong, not wanting a child.

@Movingsoon21

You are being realistic, he is not. Sit him down and get him to describe in detail how a weekend would go when you have a toddler. Get him to give the details - who is getting up at what time? Who is feeding and changing the baby? How will you spend your morning, afternoon and evening.

Then ask him to do the same thing, but thinking about when he had one of his episodes. Hopefully he will see the light.

^^ This. He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

Have you seen all the threads on MN where a woman is coping with everything while a man goes his own sweet way?
Obviously that doesn't always happen but it sounds like your guy would be one of those.

By bpd do you mean borderline personality disorder? If so how does it manifest itself?

You sound really sensible and thoughtful. Your concerns are really legitimate, and beyond the usual butterfly-type 'can we really do this' worries people have before they have kids.

I wouldn't in your situation. I have some experience with people with BPD, and personally I wouldn't want the pressure of a child in the mix. It's hard enough without.

I think a lot of the coping would fall on you as previous posters have said. You would feel rightfully resentful as he was the one who pushed for a baby. Your relationship would suffer.

Good luck OP

It sounds like that you're not only not ready, you actually don't really want children at all. Society makes us feel that we're only truly happy if we have them yet that's not true. You can be very happy and fulfilled without children.

Also, as PPs have pointed out, having a partner who is unable or unwilling to contribute properly to child-rearing would be extremely frustrating.

Obviously you have to find a way to make him believe you will never have a child but you have to be 100% sure yourself before you can persuade anyone else. If you are, and you sound close, then maybe you should leave. You know he wants children so this is not compatible with your choices. Time apart will help him decide if you are worth giving up children for. I asked dh in our first date if he wanted marriage and children and wouldn't have stayed if it wasn't yes to both.

He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

He’s right though. People adapt and manage. And with a well paid job and a willingness to get stuck in with the housework (50/50) he’s more ready than millions of men who do become fathers. Sounds like you’re trying to tell him he’s wrong when he’s not wrong. You just don’t want kids.

I sympathise with him. You've said for years you'd have one and now changed your mind. He clearly wants to be with you but he also want to have a child which is reasonable. You need to make a final decision and then discuss your future before committing to marriage. He may decide being with you is more important than being a father, he may not.
Either way, good luck to both of you.

@TiddlesTheTiger
Obviously that doesn't always happen but it sounds like your guy would be one of those.

Despite him taking on half the housework and holding down a very high responsibility career? Some weird assumptions on this thread.

@stalkersaga

And make no mistake; the burden of having a child will fall on you. Men get to be misty-Instagram-momenty about kids, mostly because there's a woman racing home from work to do pickup and rocking the baby at night and checking the bloody homework diary and wiping up all the poo.

This. Unless you are prepared for the possibility of being a single mother, don't do it.

If you almost split up over a house move, then I wouldn't consider having a child in this relationship.

@supermoonrising

He just keeps saying ‘we’d manage, people do’ but I don’t think he’s really considering how much of a change it would be.

He’s right though. People adapt and manage. And with a well paid job and a willingness to get stuck in with the housework (50/50) he’s more ready than millions of men who do become fathers. Sounds like you’re trying to tell him he’s wrong when he’s not wrong. You just don’t want kids.

Plenty of people ‘manage’ by having one person do all the legwork. Resentment builds.

If he’s such a highly paid professional why can’t he do some research to assuage his partner’s fears - such as finding out the costs of wraparound childcare, night nannies etc etc. Why is all he can muster a ‘we’ll manage’?

@Autumncoming

I totally disagree with loads of people on here. I have children and am soo soo grateful that I didn't fully consider how hard it would be. Because I might not have ever done it. It is all encompassing and life changing and at times brutally hard but also inexpressibly wonderful. I would not want to live my life without my children. So my advice is don't think about the difficulties of jt, you do manage to get through that, even with mental health disorders (which I have). There's great support available for that. Instead focus on those idyllic moments of your child calling you mummy for the first time, or the pride when you see them in a school play, and the unexpected moments of fun and laughter and love that happen day to day. If the ideas of those moments don't fill you with joy, then you know you don't want kids. Focus on the good, not the bad. Is the good good enough for you? Base your decision about having kids on that. That's what your husband is doing. If you're not on the same page after you've decided that, everyone else is right, he's not the partner for you nor you you him.

But does you partner have BPD? It will much harder for the OP than you.

Sounds rather like he's expecting that all his hobbies and alone time will continue, and he just thinks he's adding the odd camping trip at the weekend, AKA Disney Dad

I thought parenting would be hard. I thought I was being realistic and aware of what I was signing up for.

BUT: I have found the reality of parenting to be a MILLION TIMES harder than I could have ever predicted.

Some people are better suited to parenting than I obviously am, due to their personalities, interests etc. Some people have a lot of help and support (their parents, most often), we have none. There is so much to do, so much to plan and prepare, so much to worry about etc etc. I love my child with every fibre of my being. But I wish I had been more prepared (even though I thought I was), it is hard hard work. Unfortunately I don't think there's any way to convey this to your DH - from what I see on MN, dads often carry on with their hobbies and leaving the parenting to the mum.

Bottom line though - if you don't feel entirely up to having a child, I would suggest not doing it, as you could very well come to resent your DC and DH when you are overwhelmed with the work involved, the mental/emotional strain, and the obliteration of your free-time/me-time.

I think you should tell him you definitely won't be having children and he needs to decide whether to be childless with you or split and have a child with someone else.