School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

This story shows that the detention system works as intended. The point of it being after school is that it causes disruption and hassle for the parent. Only by inconveniencing the parent will the parent discipline their child to make them behave at school. A lunchtime detention isn't a punishment at all, I'd have quite happily spent a cold, wet lunchbreak in a nice warm classroom!

The fact the OP's child got punished because another teacher made her late is also fair game. In the working world, being late can cause you problems regardless of how valid the reason you had for being late was. In my first job we were deducted pay for being late, it didn't matter that the train broke down or you stopped to provide first aid after witnessing an accident. You were late, end of story.

Do you work nights every day? If not could you ask for her detentions to be done on a day that you're not working? Surely that would work as nightshifts aren't done every day are they?

@NeedsCharging

Boo the OP has mentioned it a few times.

Her DD was kept back in 1 lesson by the teacher for a chat. This then made her 5 minutes late for her next lesson which the teacher gave her detention for.

It doesn’t say the teacher kept her behind for a chat. It says.

She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson.

I think the context is important here.

Taxis in my area are typically unreliable as they are sent from the nearest town we don’t have a village taxi company plus on the few occasions I have used a cab they don’t like driving down my road (I’ve had a refusal in the past) as it’s unadopted so not paved so it’s full of potholes so always want to drop on main road which means navigating 2 completely unlit bumpy roads in the dark so I am reluctant to use them

So if she has to stay on for a detention, then dh picks her up after work from school - either before or after MILs house

And people wonder why schools are in the state they're in.

No issue with the behaviour at all (let's be realistic here, I doubt a school will give an hour detention for a single minor occurrence), only a pile on saying how wrong the school is.

Best way to deal with detention related issues is surprisingly enough don't get detentions.

Can’t she get a taxi to MIL? Not your house.

The fact the OP's child got punished because another teacher made her late is also fair game.

What nonsense. If you are late for a meeting at work because your boss refused to let you go to it on time you wouldn't get in trouble! And if you did then your workplace is completely shit and you should quit asap.

"Like I said earlier there is nothing they can do to enforce it other than physically restraining her which obviously won’t happen so they’re fighting a losing battle with me really"

It will eventually escalate to internal exclusion. You would be reasonable in questioning why she was given the detention but in my experience when parents refuse on the basis of not allowing after school detentions they become internal exclusions.

Boo

This is in the OP

she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz
My husband doesn’t pick them up until 6:30/7pm so would be way too late unfortunately

Op did you see my comment about arranging detentions on days you don't work (assuming you don't work evey night of course)?

Yanbu and I would be escalating it with the head teacher.

I think you need to support the school and think of a way to make it work. Perhaps you can suggest a day she can do the detention when you are off or your husband is off. Or surely she has a friend living nearer the school - she could walk there. Or how about she walks to a nearby public library or cafe and waits for a lift there after her detention. Ask your daughter to come up with a solution - it's her detention and she's not a baby.
To say a 14 year old can't get home alone as a one off seems a bit pathetic really. An hour's walk isn't that far and presumably it will be 4.30 pm not the middle of the night.
If you feel the teacher is being unfair and the detention shouldn't have been given then that's a different matter - make a complaint

Op if teacher is a male I’d be pushing this and pushing hard.

It’s absolutely disgraceful to try and force a 14yo to stay so late after school alone, knowing that there’s no safe route home.

@NeedsCharging

Boo

This is in the OP

she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson

Yes I know she did but not in those words, this is what she said.

She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson.

What I’m asking is why was she kept behind, was it because she misbehaved in the lesson, or did the lesson run over which I’m assuming if the lesson went over by 20 minutes and all the students were late, then they would have also been issued with detentions too.

My DS started year 7 in September and had one detention for not doing maths homework which he did actually do but something must have gone wrong with the connection and it didn’t submit correctly. He had the detention the same night they gave him it so we had no notice at all. If you miss the school bus due to detentions or after school clubs, you have to walk 15 minutes to another bus stop and wait for one there which isn’t ideal during winter. Still, he’s learnt to triple check his homework has been submitted since and definitely won’t get another detention in a hurry. They purposely make it difficult so kids don’t break the rules again.

I think there are 3 issues here.

1. The detention was given because another teacher made her late. That is something you need to take up with the school. It is not reasonable for any teacher to give a detention when it is another teacher's fault. That is something you must go above the current teacher's head for.

1. Same day detention. I am pretty sure that there is a guidance which says that notice must be given of any after school detention, so notice today for detention tomorrow. Again, this must be something you takeup with someone higher up.

I would focus on these two things first. Keep a paper trail of conversations etc. If no joy from the head, then complain to governors.

1. Attending a detention. If your child is given an after school detention then it is pretty standard that they have to attend and you have to find a way to do it. If it is a genuine detention, for breaking a school rule, then she has to take the consequences. One of the reasons for it is to inconvenience parents so they make sure their kids behave. That may mean that you have to call in a favour from friend, get a taxi, make arrangements at work etc.

about 80% of kids in my dds school come by bus. They rarely give after school detentions, but when they do the parents have to come and collect.

@NeedsCharging

I used to have a very tight pick up schedule like you OP with 2 in Primary and 2 in High School. Detentions would cause me to be late for work so I gave my DC my permission to leave school at the end of the day and not stay for Detentions.

The school cannot force your child to stay back. I did have the obvious irrate teacher call and I explained my situation and stated that DC would lose 30 mins TV time/x box/phone time once we got home but the Detention was not an option.

They were not happy but I am afraid my job was more important than their need to punish my child for a minor indiscretion.

This....

I would absolutely complain..

It is utterly unacceptable... I would say that you understand and support that children need to ne called to account for misdemeanours but you fail to see how your daughtervs behaviour was deemed 'misbehaviour'.

Being an hour late for NHS work... If you're a clinician I'd absolutely outline this too... And ram the point home.

So they're sticking to 'rools is rools'...

So... Ask them to detail HOW and WHY your daughter was given an after school detention after her other TEACHER needed to speak to her... Where does this say in policy and procedure that this is a MISDEMEANOUR.

I'd add something ré willing to accept this was a simple mistake.... But you absolutely cannot and will not risk your NHS cover

To say a 14 year old can't get home alone as a one off seems a bit pathetic really. An hour's walk isn't that far and presumably it will be 4.30 pm not the middle of the night.

It's winter now so may as well be the middle of the night. They also live rurally as OP has repeated numerous times so it wouldn't be safe for her to walk even in daylight.

Are you 100% sure your daughter was late due to the other teacher keeping her back and not for any other reason, like dwindling to class afterwards?

If that is the case then good on you for sticking up for your daughter and saying no to the detention. The punishment should fit the crime, and it appears your daughter has done nothing wrong.

I was a brilliant child at school, very well behaved, only ever had one detention ever, a supply teacher who didn’t know me, sent me to the behavioural room which incurred a one hour detention after school automatically…..because I feel over in line!!!! He thought I was mucking about but I tripped and fell over!
I was never naughty and was petrified to go to the behavioural room, I didn’t even know where it was!!!

Wish someone had stuck up for me, I was too scared to question his authority.

Somehow OP I'm not finding it at all surprising that your daughters attitude is resulting in multiple DTs. I can see where she gets it from, and all you're doing is reinforcing her inappropriate behaviour.

She was kept behind by her tutor (not for more than 5 minutes) after registration because she wanted to speak to her about an upcoming hockey tournament & my daughter is in the team

I have emailed her tutor to find out what happened but I haven’t received a reply yet so I cannot be 100% certain that it’s definitely the reason she was late however isn’t continually getting into trouble at school & there is no pattern of bad behaviour so I don’t think she would tell me a blatant lie that I can easily check

Then I’m glad your sticking up for your daughter, an adult isn’t right just because they are an adult.