School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

Your job is more important. She’s just going to have to leave, but you should take the blame

After school detentions do seem a dated punishment since modern families mostly have two parents out at work and not waiting for children to come home from school.

If they are more difficult to implement now, it is the result of children’s lesser autonomy if living in rural areas. Roads are more dangerous and public transport is next to non-existent in some areas.
I don’t suppose detentions are actually intended to inconvenience parents.

@ColinTheKoala

By the time youngsters reach isolation their parents are usually glad that interventions at this level are in place

yeah right - maybe in some circumstances where kids are really difficult and need help. And where isolation is a real alternative to exclusion.

But the OP's DD does not fall into that category and most kids don't.

Especially the ones whose kids were put in isolation because of school uniform infractions - often because the rules change last minute and their parents can't afford to eg buy new shoes overnight? Oh yes lets lock them up on a secure site. Does. Not. Happen.

Colin - I am not speaking about the OP’s case. In responding to all those parents encouraging their pupils to just leave isolation. It’s not that easy. The whole school site is secure. Most schools are these days. The unit in which isolation is based is especially secure as many pupils are extremely vulnerable. I didn’t mention locking pupils up - that’s in your vivid imagination - I said that pupils can’t just leave because the site is secure. They can’t and it is.

I don’t suppose detentions are actually intended to inconvenience parents.

Actually sometimes they are.

This why Saturday detentions are becoming more popular, it's often at that point the parent is inconvenienced and they start to back the school.

I’ve had a conversation with the deputy…she is satisfied that unfortunately due to lack of communication between staff the detention shouldn’t have been issued, she also said that she’s not wasting time with finding out how many minutes it took for my daughter to walk from her tutor to class. As she is not a repeat offender and they have no issue with her behaviour then the detention will not happen. After school detention is in most cases given to repeated lateness but she understood my position and as I’m offering alternatives and flexibility (before school or lunch) that if it should happen again then they are willing to do that rather than cause issues for our family with childcare & work. I’m glad this has been resolved but I’m also shocked by how many parents are easy to just accept it, the conversation I had with her was very comfortable and not confrontational. I can’t believe some of the comments either I’m expecting comments now that I should sell my house & move to closer to the school..sorry people but some comments are ludicrous

@sashh Saturday detentions? That's just ridiculous! What about children who visit their other parent at weekends?
Schools are turning into dictatorships. I'm so glad I got out when I did.

@FU81 pleased it is now sorted. Sounds like the teacher who issued the detention did do it to make a point.

Like you I’m shocked at the comments on this thread. If you have read my post I had to have words about a ridiculous detention my son got a couple of weeks ago. If my son had been naughty/disrespectful etc then I would have stuck by the school and let him do the hour detention but I just couldn’t standby on this occasion and stepped in and said he was not doing it.

@Flowerlane
I’m glad you agree, I fully support the school if there is a repeat offending or disrespectful behaviour but they do seem to hand out detentions for silly reasons rather than ones that deserve punishment. Anyway it has been resolved & luckily her deputy understands where I was coming from, not as a difficult parent refusing to accept my child's behaviour

@videobaby123

I don't think same day detentions without advance notice are fair on parents so in a general sense YANBU, but do check you have all the facts

I'm confused. What school doesn't do same day detentions? I've never heard of a school giving a parent prior warning that their child has a detention. I left school 6 years ago so I'm very up to date about how detentions work as I often had many.

We could be given a hour or two detentions and were expected to sit that the whole day. If we didn't go, then a hour detention would turn into two hours the next day. If we missed a two hour detention, we'd be in internal referral for the whole day.

Our parents also never got a text or any notification if we were in detention, they'd only know if they called the school. Not the best way of communicating but it is what it is🤷‍♀️

What a ridiculous system. With all the focus on safeguarding and women's safety, suggesting that pupils walk a. Hour in the dark alone is totally inappropriate. So is not notifying parents of the children's whereabouts if detained. There is zero reason detention can't be scheduled rather than on the day.

@Bingbong21

I would be questioning those specific detentions. Its not like she was faffing and late, her teachers kept her behind. The detentions are ridiculous and I'd be refusing them for their ridiculousness.

In general though, if child deserves a detention I do agree it isn't school's problem re work.

It might not be the school's problem per se but a functioning school community is a school issue and parents losing their jobs or young people stranded in the dark us not exactly how to go about creating a safe and cohesive community

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

Perhaps schools should come up with more appropriate sanctions. This is backward and draconian. Causing work problems for parents by dumping last minute detentions is frankly unprofessional. This sort of action is not civilised. Rather than following stupid and archaic rules, people should be expecting schools to move into the 21st century. Expecting young women to walk home in the dark alone is frankly appalling. Safeguarding apparently stops at the school gates

The thing is, you basically started the conversation in the most arrogant and confrontational way possible as if teaching staff's time is worth nothing. You also encouraged your daughter into a 90 minute detention by telling her not to accept the consequences of being late.
Here are some suggestions for the future: don't start from the idea that they should give up their (very short) lunchtime because it inconveniences you.
She's in year 9: encourage her to sort it herself. She could have asked her tutor to email the teacher so they could change the late mark.
This is part of your kid learning things for life, like not to be late. You deciding that she's above all consequences isn't helpful to that.

Also at the idea that the teacher did it to make a point. Late detentions are automatic from the register in most schools, so the teacher would have done nothing more than mark the register accurately.

@Everydayimhuffling have you read the OPs update? It seems that the SLT were content with the alternative time that she was offering far from suggesting that she move house or her dds school, and have anyway decided that the detention should not have been imposed in the first place because her dd has no history of lateness and a valid reason.

@Everydayimhuffling

The thing is, you basically started the conversation in the most arrogant and confrontational way possible as if teaching staff's time is worth nothing. You also encouraged your daughter into a 90 minute detention by telling her not to accept the consequences of being late. Here are some suggestions for the future: don't start from the idea that they should give up their (very short) lunchtime because it inconveniences you. She's in year 9: encourage her to sort it herself. She could have asked her tutor to email the teacher so they could change the late mark. This is part of your kid learning things for life, like not to be late. You deciding that she's above all consequences isn't helpful to that.

Have you actually read the thread?

Op phoned the school and said her daughter would not being attending the 60 minute detention, so she never encouraged her daughter to just not turn up she informed the school who would have informed the teacher in question she would not be attending so the 90 minute detention should not have even been issued.

[quote FU81]@girlmom21

Absolutely! That’s how it was when I went to secondary school. All this drama over a few minutes late[/quote]
Yes, you are rather making a fuss about being 'made' late for work, when you just needed to make alterative arrangements and clearly don't actually respect anyone else's time (i.e the people teaching your child all day, who need their few minutes' contracted break in the middle of the day)

I've had a rather irate teacher phone me before asking why dd wasnt in her detention. My reply was "I wrote her a note saying we (as a family) have the dentist so she couldnt do that day but could do the next night"
Well because she had missed it they wanted her to do an hour the next day.
I told them no way, dd had a prior appointment more important than a detention. School werent happy but eventually backed down when I told them ide start making dentist appointments in the middle of the day so we wouldnt have this issue again.
I feel sorry for the poor dc who have buses to catch. 24 hours notice for children is more than fair, especially when nobody is denying the detention just trying to work around it.

Yes, you are rather making a fuss about being 'made' late for work, when you just needed to make alterative arrangements and clearly don't actually respect anyone else's time (i.e the people teaching your child all day, who need their few minutes' contracted break in the middle of the day)

That's not how it works. Schools that provide for lunchtime detentions don't take away any staff member's contracted break. There is simply a daily rota under which someone covers detentions: their contracts may specifically provide that they be available to cover lunchtime detentions with appropriate breaks at other times, they may be employed specifically for this purpose, or they get a break at another time in lieu.

There are some very weird ideas on here about how schools organise these things.

I’m glad this has been resolved but I’m also shocked by how many parents are easy to just accept it

This. I'm always astonished at how eager MN posters are to roll over and accept any bizarre rules and behaviour from schools - there seems to be some sort of terror of rocking the boat, possibly combined with a view that all teachers are living saints. They're just ordinary, fallible human beings who can actually respond rather well to reasoned, calm questioning of their decisions.

I’m shocked at the amount of parents here that are only supportive of schools and their systems as long as it doesn’t inconvenience them, and their schedules.

Glad to read you got things sorted this time. My DS school has a policy of no after school detentions. The also do no extra curricular clubs after school either ( everything is done at lunchtime ) The reason is that they have many kids who commute up to 50 miles to get to the school on a mixture of contract buses and various types of public transport and they can't risk kids missing buses or connections.

Colin - I am not speaking about the OP’s case. In responding to all those parents encouraging their pupils to just leave isolation. It’s not that easy. The whole school site is secure. Most schools are these days. The unit in which isolation is based is especially secure as many pupils are extremely vulnerable. I didn’t mention locking pupils up - that’s in your vivid imagination - I said that pupils can’t just leave because the site is secure. They can’t and it is.

What is the difference between 'locking up' and 'just can't leave'?

@Haffiana

Colin - I am not speaking about the OP’s case. In responding to all those parents encouraging their pupils to just leave isolation. It’s not that easy. The whole school site is secure. Most schools are these days. The unit in which isolation is based is especially secure as many pupils are extremely vulnerable. I didn’t mention locking pupils up - that’s in your vivid imagination - I said that pupils can’t just leave because the site is secure. They can’t and it is.

What is the difference between 'locking up' and 'just can't leave'?

Hyperbole

Expecting young women to walk home in the dark alone is frankly appalling. Safeguarding apparently stops at the school gates

The school isn't 'expecting' that though. The school is presumably expecting the parents to make appropriate arrangements for their child to get home safely after a detention.

After school detentions do seem a dated punishment since modern families mostly have two parents out at work and not waiting for children to come home from school.

Schools need forms of discipline which actually deter students from misbehaviour. That's kind of the whole point, and they have very little in their arsenal that actually remotely bothers any but the most rule-abiding kids. If schools keep making punishments more and more convenient and less annoying, there will be no point in them whatsoever. If parents actually saw what behaviour is like in secondary schools and how much it impacts on other students' learning and well-being, they'd probably be calling for more draconian measures, not less.