School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

Well at least internal exclusion is done during school hours

At our school those who cant/wont do after school detentions get bumped up to a day in the internal exclusion unit instead. Lunch time detentions are for minor infractions, after school detentions are already for more serious or repeated offences.

Detentions are done at lunch time at DDs' schools. I though they weren't allowed to keep them after school without 24 hours' notice at least. In some areas there would only be one school bus they could get and no other transport available.

Plus being kept late by another teacher is a pretty unreasonable to give a detention in the first place.

Also they are massively overstepping to suggest your work arrangements are a problem.

In this case the school ABU . Stand your ground.

I don’t think the punishment is proportionate either, the detention slip states ‘missed start of lesson’ I don’t understand how 60 minutes & now 90 minutes is reasonable. She could easily just make up the 5 minutes she was late in break time

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships?
If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

@Harriet1216

Unfortunately, the school has no obligation to take into account your own schedules. Lots of parents will be inconvenienced by pupils' detentions and the school can't be expected to pander to each family's individual arrangements.

It might also encourage the inconvenienced parents to do something about their child's unacceptable behaviour in school! Sending you a copy, in whatever form, of the school's policies seems perfectly acceptable, teachers really don't have the time to indulge in long-winded discussions with the parents of misbehaving pupils.

I won’t support any system that prevents me going to work

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

The kids not being naughty though. She was a few minutes late for class because she was with another teacher.

The parents were given no notice of the detention and it's impacting their work.

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

I don't tell my DDs to blindly obey rules, but to question whether the rules are reasonable in the first place, and certainly whether the punishment fits the crime.

If the rules are not reasonable and fairly applied, how can the school be run with any kind of order? Kids being punished for what other teachers have done? School isn't meant to be a dictatorship, it's a partnership between school, parents and children.

YANBU. The school I went to very rarely enforced after school detentions. It just wasn't practical with so many kids that use the bus to get to and from school, parents schedules, younger siblings as you say. They gave our a whole lot of lunch time detentions though. Much better to do that.

I'm sure if they have to give an after school one, parents need to be told anyway!

I can't believe the comments on this thread either. It just sounds like the School is on a power trip to me.

Wow what a total bitch this teacher is!
Why should your daughter receive a detention if she’s been kept behind by another teacher?
Yes I’d totally flight this all the way.
School shouldn’t be a prison ffs

A few years ago my son had an after school detention and it just wasn’t possible to do it (next day so I had notification but couldn’t change my work schedule that soon) I phoned and spoke to the teacher in charge and we agreed another day for him to serve his punishment. I had to take time of work to collect him etc but detentions are supposed to be a deterrent and I’m guessing knowing his behaviour meant I was massively inconvenienced too and possibly pissed off my boss etc etc had a big enough impact on him that he didn’t get another one. If you speak to the school and help them to come to a solution they should be helpful but just insisting it’s not possible means your child has no deterrent to bad behaviour. That said I think same day after school detentions with no notice would be unreasonable. Maybe different in other schools but my sons was a semi rural school where almost all of the students relied upon school busses for transport etc.

Unfortunately, the school has no obligation to take into account your own schedules. Lots of parents will be inconvenienced by pupils' detentions and the school can't be expected to pander to each family's individual arrangements.

It might also encourage the inconvenienced parents to do something about their child's unacceptable behaviour in school! Sending you a copy, in whatever form, of the school's policies seems perfectly acceptable, teachers really don't have the time to indulge in long-winded discussions with the parents of misbehaving pupils.

Totally agree with these two posters. Presumably, you chose an out of catchment school and that's why there's no late bus for your daughter.

I would request / demand a meeting with the head of year, assistant head or head teacher and to dicuss this issue to find a resolution. I would also advise the teacher that your daughter will not be attending the detention until this requested meeting has taken place however once there is a resolution in place any due punishment will be supported by you. In otherwords put the detention on hold until a meeting has taken place to establish the facts and find a way forward.

This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers.

Nobody is telling their DC to ignore teachers. This is a ridiculous detention that could have serious implications on the OPS employment.

Teachers should not be feared by children or held in unquestionably authority as that causes even worse problems don't you think?

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

Lunch time detentions? 🤷‍♀️ What if say a kid got the bus home usually but missed the bus due to detention. Parent didn't drive so now on earth do they get home?!

In most school sanctions escalate, if you're late to a lesson at mine it's a 20 min detention (next day, parents notified by an app), if they miss that it's a 40 min for non-attendance, I think they get two chances at that before it escalated to a day in isolation. Also worthy of note that a day in isolation may exclude the student from things like reward trips.

Although in most schools I've worked in a quick email from the teacher that held her back to the teacher that gave the detention would get it removed if it was for a good reason. Might be worth emailing both teachers and head of year? Or phoning the head of year to get to the bottom of it?

Lots of schools go with after school detentions precisely because it inconveniences parents, so the students get an earful at home and are less likely to do whatever it is again.

As a parent, I'd have just booked her a taxi the first time so it didn't escalate.

The fact that people are even mentioning lunchtime detentions shows how little people actually understand a teacher’s working day. Teachers are expected to set up for the afternoon at lunchtime plus it’s their only time to go to the toilet and you can not leave a child unattended in a classroom while you go to the bathroom. On top of that the child needs to get lunch end go to the toilet

@FU81

I don’t think the punishment is proportionate either, the detention slip states ‘missed start of lesson’ I don’t understand how 60 minutes & now 90 minutes is reasonable. She could easily just make up the 5 minutes she was late in break time

I definitely agree with this.

We were given a 30min detention if we were late to a lesson (not like anyone ever went) but I also don't think you can expect them to keep your daughter back for 5mins in break time. This isn't primary school. Most secondary schools take the piss just because they can. Doesn't make it right but they aren't doing anything I've never heard of before tbh

the fact that there is no reason that they can’t do it during a lunch hour except they don’t want to doesn’t seem good enough

Well, one reason might be that staff are legally entitled to a break and aren't actually getting paid over lunch?

[quote girlmom21]@videobaby123 your school were breaching a lot of rules there. They have to notify the parents with notice if it's longer than 20/30 minutes I believe, and a 2 hour detention is batshit.

Ours were 30 as standard, an hour if it was head of year (serious or if you missed a standard detention) then isolation (your internal referral) for the day if you missed that. [/quote]
A 2hr detention was given if you received two 1hr detentions in one day. They definitely should have let parents know. They did at the start then it all went downhill especially because of the amount of detentions we were actually getting daily

@videobaby123 you'd have expected them to learn that detentions weren't working, wouldn't you