School detentions

[FU81]

I have a real dilemma with my daughters secondary school. She doesn’t often get detentions (in 3 years just 2) but she got kept behind after a lesson last week for 20 minutes and she was late for the lesson. my daily school run is to collect youngest from primary then collect her & her sister from secondary, drop them to my MIL about 12 miles away then onto work. My husband then collects them from his mums when he finishes work. We’ve had the same routine for last couple of years & it works well providing all the kids are on time.
The day my daughter was kept behind messed up the routine & I was ultimately late for my shift by over an hour. I complained to the school who basically said that they can pretty much detain the kids without notice & it’s too bad for the parent if they’re late for work (not their problem effectively). I explained that unfortunately life doesn’t work as simply as that & if it affects my childcare arrangements and work schedule then detentions need to happen during lunch breaks which I have no problem with. The teacher is question was very rude & just sent me cut/paste text from school policy & told me if I don’t like it maybe I should find another school that has policies that fit in with my work schedule but good luck with that. On Monday she was given a 60 minute after school detention (for tuesday) by the very teacher I’d been having these email exchanges with which seemed such a coincidence the reason being that she was late again to a lesson, she explained that she was kept by her tutor after registration for a few minutes so she was running late for a lesson, so I feel an hour is an excessive detention time for the infraction. I called the school & explained that she couldn’t attend attend after school due to our schedule so could she have it during a lunch hour and that I feel the time excessive. Yesterday I then received an email from said teacher telling me that as it was missed she now has a 90 minute detention after school tomorrow, which I have responded that she cannot attend for reasons that I have previously explained, I also explained that I work at a hospital about 40 minute drive away & I’m on a strict schedule & I cannot just turn up late for my shifts otherwise I could face a disciplinary. AIBU to fight against this, I feel the school is being unreasonable as I’m not refusing she have a detention just not after school plus I do feel the teacher has deliberately given her the detention because he doesn’t like my opinion on it.

@lazylinguist

After school detentions do seem a dated punishment since modern families mostly have two parents out at work and not waiting for children to come home from school.

Schools need forms of discipline which actually deter students from misbehaviour. That's kind of the whole point, and they have very little in their arsenal that actually remotely bothers any but the most rule-abiding kids. If schools keep making punishments more and more convenient and less annoying, there will be no point in them whatsoever. If parents actually saw what behaviour is like in secondary schools and how much it impacts on other students' learning and well-being, they'd probably be calling for more draconian measures, not less.

So true. There’s a 12 year old girl been stabbed to death last night by secondary school boys. The behaviour of school kids both in and out of secondary schools has become more and more terrifying and schools have their hands tied in all sorts of mind boggling ways.

The system obviously doesn't work for certain children then does it? What about a rethink on why some children are so challenging and a bit of common sense like in the OPs case. Equally, punishing parents is definitely a new thing, some schools are certainly stricter and disproportionate to the crime than others. I genuinely think being punitive in this way causes more problems than it solves. Kindness appears to be lacking in society now, that's a real problem i think. I personally have taught my dc how important that is and my eldest will comment to me when someone in his class is being awful to a teacher. He always feels for the teachers who are kind and show respect to everyone. Punishing a child to get at the OP is not kind, it is confrontational and unnecessary. Not caring how she gets home is unkind, surely terrible recent events would suggest not caring about a child walking home on her own in the dark is actually not a great thought process for a scho to have.

I remember times when one person would play up and the whole class would be given a detention by one teacher. The injustice still smarts. You get some teachers who like to wield power, and it really doesn't help with learning or discipline.

@FU81 I’m glad you got to the bottom of it and the situation is resolved. Have a lovely weekend.

I remember times when one person would play up and the whole class would be given a detention by one teacher. The injustice still smarts. You get some teachers who like to wield power, and it really doesn't help with learning or discipline.

Do you actually have current examples of this though? Collective punishments like that are usually heavily discouraged if not actually banned these days in my experience. As for 'teachers who like to wield power', I haven't often seen that either. They don't really have a lot of power. And what power they do have is almost always wielded for good reason.

I do worry for teachers when you see parents undermining the school and its authority.

It must be a pain for them to have to accommodate each child's individual circumstance when issuing a punishment for their little darlings breaking the rules.

@Thinkbiglittleone is you ready the OPs update you will see that the deputy head has cancelled the detention because it turns out she didn’t break any rules

@Thinkbiglittleone

I do worry for teachers when you see parents undermining the school and its authority.

It must be a pain for them to have to accommodate each child's individual circumstance when issuing a punishment for their little darlings breaking the rules.

I also worry for children being taught by teachers who decide to give a detention on a whim as that’s what happened to my son a few weeks back which is why I stepped in. If my child had been naughty/disrespectful/not done his homework then I would have let the detention go ahead, BUT it was none of the above.

So my little darling did not deserve the detention and was backed up by others including teachers who agreed he didn’t deserve it.

Do you actually have current examples of this though? Collective punishments like that are usually heavily discouraged if not actually banned these days in my experience.

We had a secondary school visit to my workplace a couple of years ago. 29 delightful, well-behaved kids, one disruptive little sod. Whole class given detention at the end of the visit and the teacher made it clear it was a collective punishment for the actions of one. Little sod was delighted at the impact he had on the rest.

@Notbornwithit

The comments on this thread are unbelievable. This is one of the reasons secondary schools are full of horrendous behaviour and some downright dangerous for staff and kids alike. Parents telling their kids to just ignore teachers. What do you think that does for parent/ pupil relationships? If parents won’t support the detention system how do you think the school can run with any kind of order?

Totally agree.

@Goldenbear

The system obviously doesn't work for certain children then does it? What about a rethink on why some children are so challenging and a bit of common sense like in the OPs case. Equally, punishing parents is definitely a new thing, some schools are certainly stricter and disproportionate to the crime than others. I genuinely think being punitive in this way causes more problems than it solves. Kindness appears to be lacking in society now, that's a real problem i think. I personally have taught my dc how important that is and my eldest will comment to me when someone in his class is being awful to a teacher. He always feels for the teachers who are kind and show respect to everyone. Punishing a child to get at the OP is not kind, it is confrontational and unnecessary. Not caring how she gets home is unkind, surely terrible recent events would suggest not caring about a child walking home on her own in the dark is actually not a great thought process for a scho to have.

Parents are responsible for their children's travel arrangements to and from school, not the school. If a child has to walk home in the dark, it's the parents fault for not making suitable arrangements. Some of the posts on here reek with self importance and entitlement. Teachers are not your au pairs, nannies, child minders or whatevers, to be employed at your convenience. .

@SammyScrounge I suggest it is you who reeks of self importance and privilege and ignorance with regards his hard life is for many millions of families in this countries. Many parents do not have grandparent or nannies in call to pick up their dc due to last minute changes if plans. Most parents do arrange appropriate after school systems fit getting their dc home but that relied on schools not stopping the dc from being able to use those arrangements by detaining them with NO NOTICE. It takes time to sort out alternative arrangements and millions of parents are barely coping as it is. Lucky you for no doubt having the resources to arrange for someone else to collect the dc at the drop of a hat or to pay for an uber. Well done you. For millions of families that would mean no money for food or risking losing their zero hours contract job 👍🏼👏🏼

Parents are responsible for their children's travel arrangements to and from school, not the school. If a child has to walk home in the dark, it's the parents fault for not making suitable arrangements

they do make suitable arrangements - school bus or similar. But if the kid is kept in detention they can't get the school bus, can they? I would have thought that was blindingly obvious.

Anyway, we can all stop arguing because this child didn't deserve the detention and it was cancelled. Which was kind of the point. If a detention is deserved, reasonable parents will support it.

@ColinTheKoala

Parents are responsible for their children's travel arrangements to and from school, not the school. If a child has to walk home in the dark, it's the parents fault for not making suitable arrangements

they do make suitable arrangements - school bus or similar. But if the kid is kept in detention they can't get the school bus, can they? I would have thought that was blindingly obvious.

Anyway, we can all stop arguing because this child didn't deserve the detention and it was cancelled. Which was kind of the point. If a detention is deserved, reasonable parents will support it.

You mean that people will agree to make arrangements to accomodate a detention after school? That there will be no anguished cries insisting that there is absolutely no way that the parent's schedule will allow a late detention?

@Everydayimhuffling

The thing is, you basically started the conversation in the most arrogant and confrontational way possible as if teaching staff's time is worth nothing. You also encouraged your daughter into a 90 minute detention by telling her not to accept the consequences of being late. Here are some suggestions for the future: don't start from the idea that they should give up their (very short) lunchtime because it inconveniences you. She's in year 9: encourage her to sort it herself. She could have asked her tutor to email the teacher so they could change the late mark. This is part of your kid learning things for life, like not to be late. You deciding that she's above all consequences isn't helpful to that.

Oh just fuck off!!

She was late because her form tutor kept her behind. She doesn't have to accept any consequences.

The teacher's time is no more important than the parents'. If they don't want to be inconvenienced they should apply another punishment.

And yes, clearly in this instance the OP's daughter WAS above consequences, as she had done nothing wrong.

@Cheekytea

To be honest you do sound like your just making excuses Your child not followed policy She has a detention You need fine suitable childcare so your child can attend Why can someone else not pick her up ? A taxi ? Go to a friends house after ? Ride a bike home ?

Why should they schools are shit enough al decide the punishment not the school we are the parents not them feck that if am not happy about them walking home late cause its dark then am not happy its not there child who could be attacked etc am not an agressive person but would love a teacher to tell me different a lot are bully's they would be the first to back track if a child went missing

@Snoozer11

All these talking about teachers and their break times.

When I worked in a restaurant I didn't get a break if I worked a six hour shift. If I worked 8 hours, I got 20 minutes.

Teachers teach roughly 9-3.15, with a 15 minute break on a morning and a further 45 minutes for lunch.

They have ample time for breaks.

This could not be further from the truth 🤣

Cries in teacher 😂😭😂😭😂😭

Teachers do not get paid for the lunch break.

Where are these schools with such long lunch breaks? And ones where teachers get a morning break as well?? They sound awesome and quite unlike any school I’ve taught at in my 20 year teaching career. Currently we get 30 mins, but if a student needs to talk to me/I want to keep them back after a lesson then that’s pretty much gone. I’m not allowed to eat during teaching time, nor can I go to the toilet during a lesson. I get 4 non teaching lessons per fortnight.

@FU81

I won’t support any system that prevents me going to work

Sorry, but your daughter is in secondary school... You don't HAVE to ferry her everywhere, if this is due to her time keeping, then perhaps a life lesson in accepting responsibility for her actions is needed - she does her detention and she gets a bus, taxi (FGS you could probably pre-book her an Uber or something) or walks to her grandmother's. I used to get 3 buses home from secondary school, before mobile phones were common, and then I'd get home and my mum and dad were usually out at work. Despite everything that is portrayed in the media, the risks are minimal and many many people, girls, women and everyone else go on public transport/about their business with very little drama. Sounds like a perfect opportunity of 1). Allowing her to take responsibility and 2). Earning trust and some freedoms.

I feel so sorry for your 14 year old who has to go home with you every day. I loved hanging out with my friends after school and having my independence. Is she happy with the arrangements?

@PurpleNebula84 someone else who doesn't understand the realities of living in a rural location. Uber doesn't exist where I live and I am only 55 mins on the train from London. Also very few taxi companies , good luck getting a taxi between 3.30 and 5.30 in term time. Most are block booked a year in advance by LA for school transport. Tried to get a taxi home from the railway station last week , 2 hour wait and then they couldn't guarantee.also n such thing as Deliveroo, Just Eat etc.

Last bus to village is at 5pm, if its running, many are now cancelled at late noice because of Covid and staff shortages.Roads are dark, unlit and have no paths . There is no way I would want my 14 year old to walk across country home in the dark in the winter .

@Odoreida my dc were picked up all of their school careers, at least until they could drive themselves, as were all of their friends. Strangely two are now in good jobs and the third is at University, it doesn't seem to have done them much harm.

She needs to accept responsibility